Safe Speed Forums

This is one that's been bugging me for a while. Cars have for ages had the horn in the middle of the steering wheel, something I have detested, to the point of actually relocating it elsewhere on one car and then failing the MOT for it.

Modern cars have airbags, and in some you press on the air bag unit to sound the horn.

Now I have watched many drivers who will lean on the horn at the slightest provocation, for example someone cutting in front of them, which got me wondering what would happen, if they then hit the car in front hard enough to set the airbag off, whilst they were using the horn.

Would it detect that the hand was there (due to horn being active) and not deploy the airbag, risking injury from hitting the wheel.

Would it deploy hard enough that the arm could be dislocated or twisted?

Would it push the drivers fist into their own face?

Or am I just a moron who has missed some entirely obvious fact that makes my whole question stupid and pointless?

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Would it push the drivers fist into their own face?

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Poetic justice methinks

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

The company I work for deals with injury claims for the motor insurance industry.

Injuries to the forearm from airbags going off while using the horn are very common. Everything from sprained wrists to ulna fractures.

Facial injuries resulting from forearm contact with the face are also common. This is usually just bruising, but there can also be lacerations from rings and other jewellery. Broken noses are not unheard of, either.

The thing is, even in cars where the horn pushes are are at the 3 & 9-o-clock positions, many people still use the palm of their hand rather than their thumb to activate the horn, leaving them just as vulnerable to the above injuries if the airbag goes off.

The safest place for the horn is a BEHIND the steering wheel, such as a column stalk or a paddle. This is something for the Insurance industry and the car manufacturers to sort out and I'm sure they're already discussing it.

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“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

I've never worked out how or why people manage to lean on the horn just before a crash. Wouldn't it be better to be taking evasive action at this point? I know in the few close calls I've had I've been too busy steering to worry about the horn.

Bloody annoys me, i have a habit of resting my wrists on the centre of the steering wheel while on the motorway and the amount of times my horn sounds when i hit a bump! god knows what people think, leaves me very embarrased.

No offence, but you could try holding the wheel properly, it is safer, honestly.

I only had that problem back when I was a lot younger. I would always hit the horn with my elbow while reverse parking my Mk4 Escort. Yes I know I should have been holding the wheel differently.

So I got an instrument cluster surround from a higher spec model with a heated front screen, and used the button for that as the horn. This also had the added bonus of making you think about whether the horn use was appropriate, shame about failing the MOT for it as I think it was much safer.

It's harder to accidentially hit it in the Legacy, as you have to press harder, but I guess I should find a new location anyway.

Reminds me of the old Tommy Cooper joke:

"Doctor (raising left arm), it hurts when I do that"
"Well, don't do that!"

You should be fine to relocate the horn button, as long as it is "readily accessible" then it is ok. I think that even if you had to physically move your arm from the wheel to the use the horn button then it would still be "readily accessible", given that older cars have various devices mounted off the wheel and are subject to the same requirement.

However if there was a horn symbol on the wheel still then you would probably have to put a piece of tape over it.

Gareth

Do you honestly think you will be able to grip hold of the wheel from that position in the event of a tyre blowout at motorway speeds?

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

I think this thread is very interesting, but I don't think it's fair to suggest that a centre horn button is 'unsafe' - rather it might be better to suggest that it is 'sub-optimal'.

I can see clear opportunities for better design, but I can't say I'd really worry about driving with a centre horn button.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

i tend to think if you've got time to use the horn whilst crashing. you've got time to do something more constructive about avoiding/mitigating the collision.

airbags are immensley unpleasant things.. do what the rally drivers do, cross your arms over your chest sit back & enjoy the ride (oh and try to relax).

"Airbag" - noun
pron. ayr baag (in resting state) or ooochafukgeesuz (upon deployment)

def. a bomb in a bag placed a confined space, usually a vehicle at optimal head height or trajectory. Deployment is never a certainty.

This came up in conversation following an incident I was involved in on the M5 where a van spun in front of me and I had to do an emergency stop - though in this case it was to do with passenger airbags, not the driver's. As I slammed on the anchors, my partner instinctively put her hand out to hold her back from the dash, and in doing so ended up with her arm right over the weakened plastic that the airbag bursts through.

We had exactly the same discussion here, wondering what would have happened if I'd hit the vehicle in front and the airbag deployed, but I guess my question has been answered now: it breaks your arm or similar!

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Carl Prescott

better your arm than your skull.

I know that airbags originated in the USA as they were refusing to wear seatbelts, and that a large number of people automatically think that they are "a good thing", but has there actually been any serious research into whether they are actually "a good thing?"

For example - how many go off when they shouldn't - and cause an accident?

I know they can damage the baby seats, but do they damage other things?

As the vast majority of UK drivers/passengers wear seat belts, should they be fitted in UK cars?

Just interested!

The air bags fitted to UK ( and other european cars) are smaller than those fitted to US cars because of our compulsory seatbelt laws. these mean the air bags don't have to do so much 'work' when they are activated.

You're preaching to the converted here I think.

But just as airbags were invented because muppets don't wear seatbelts, they cause problems to muppets who just lean on the horn and expect to actually get their right of way.

There is some kind of darwinist justice in that, but I thought this was about safety. A broken arm probably counts as a serious injury so will help them put a camera up too.

I guess it's best to ask people who've had their faces redesigned by dashboards and steering wheels.

Sorry, did not think i would get such a kicking
i would of explained properly, i did mean when i am crawling along, hence why i made reference to the motorway. i do not drive like that all the time, i do not think it is possible.