Safe Speed Forums

I must mention one of the worst ones I've witnessed on more than one occasion. (It's amazing what more you can see from a van).

I have seen a driver going into an island with the phone stuck in his left ear and let go of the steering wheel on the approach to the island where it is still on the straight.

He transfers his right hand to about 7 o’clock on the steering wheel so that he can turn around the island with his arm sort of akimbo with elbow bent up, his hand now moving clockwise to somewhere at 6 o’clock, and back out on the straight again ending with his hand now back at 7 o’clock.

To finish, he completely lets go of the steering wheel, (look no hands), in order to re-grab it at the more comfortable 3 o’clock without a single indicator coming on either. Well, how are you going to do that and steer all with one hand? Great!

It’s insane, but he didn't have an acident and I guess that’s the only way you're going to get around an island using one hand.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I agree with you entirely in that case , Tone, the guy should be strung up by his fingers. Now while I have a hands free for phoning, I will hold my hand up and say that I would take a drink from a bottle whilst driving BUT it would be on an open striaght road where the forward visibility is very good, no other traffic about and I promise you, that in the days when I used to drive vans long distance, for a living, I could pick up the bottle from,it's door holder,place it between my legs to remove top, take a drink and replace top and bottle into door without taking eyes off road and although I was steering (holding steeing wheel in straight ahead position) with one hand, is that any different from changing gear?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

So where are you on Mole's post weepej out of interest?I'll jump in the barrel first shall I.. I think they too are a distraction but I think it's harder to argue that it isn't as necessary in this modern fast-paced world. (Mole's example of a missed call/message and peripatetic salesmen etc.).

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

You keep talking about handsfree Tone, but it's still another in-car task, as is changing the radio station or talking to a passenger. We all make conjecture about why one is worse than the other, but in the absence of any real study, how can you say handsfree is safe?

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Ah, you just pipped me to the post there Robin because I just this second edited my last one. I don't, but “I think they too are a distraction but I think it's harder to argue that it isn't as necessary in this modern fast-paced world. (Mole's example of a missed call/message and peripatetic salesmen etc.).“

The radio, adjusting the air con, windows etc. They are all distractions and I don't generally use them or at least keep them to a minimum. I think this is where I am being missunderstood, I do know what we mean about distractions. I am just trying to separate a completely unnecessary one. Fair enough?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Sorry, I probably ought to clarify. My first hands-free kit was absolutely PANTS, but I do have a half-decent one now. I'm not condoning the use of hand-held mobiles whilst driving (never have!) but I WAS saying that a poor hands free kit probably isn't any better than hand-held!


None of those links actually goes very far towards convincing me, to be honest. For a start, you can forget "vox-pop telephone surveys" they're not "research" in my book. you can get a phone or street survey to give whatever answer you want (just ask an SCP member of staff)!

As for the statistic about young drivers, mobiles and accidents, I think we need to watch out fo the "weasly words"! It could just as easily have said " 21% of fatal car crashes involving teenagers between 16 and 19 involve exceeding the speed limit" but I don't think we'd be having this discussion if the topic was on whether or not the speed limit should be reduced for every driver! The word "involve" can mean different things to different people!

As for the TRL research, was that the on where someone had to drive a slalom course whilst doing mental arithmetic on the phone? If so, I'm not surprised that it showed they were as bad a someone twice over the booze limit! Unfortunately, we need to know what the control for that experiment was. For example, did they try the same course with the driver doing the same mental arithmetic but saying the results to the passenger? Could it be that it was the mental arithmetic and not the phone that was the problem?

Just to be clear (because this is a long and complex thread now:

1. I do not use a hand-held mobile when driving and do not think it is a good idea in general. HOWEVER, I also believe that it is no less dangerous than using a CD, walkie-talkie or any other communicating device that requires to be hand-held. NOTE that I am only talking about the phone call. Of course it's a daft idea to be dialing a number or texting whilst driving.

2. There are obviously going to be a range of occasions (like exceeding the speed limit) where a mobile phone can be used safely. Blanket rules rarely work well. We put up with the more sensible ones because we accept that you can't really make rules for every possible situation.

3. I believe that more research is needed because I don't think we fully understand the mechanism by which a mobile causes accidents. If it's holding something in your hand, then CBs, police and tax radios, food, cigarettes, CDs and manual transmissions should be banned too. If it's about the conversation, then hands-free kits clearly won't make any difference. I suspect, it's more complex than either of those two issues in isolation.

Oh don't get me started on cigarettes, how on earth they don't say that lighting/smoking a cigarette is dangerous is beyond me...

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Ah! Okay then and thanks again Mole.

Firstly, I did say that even if only a tiny fraction of it was true or accurate it is still nonetheless cause for concern. I have that tiny fraction already compiled in my head actually, (please resist Grabs), as I believe most of us here do if you are honest. (That wasn’t an accusation anyone)

I’m sure I can’t be the only one to observe this moronic behaviour when you see the body language of the car ‘isn’t right’? So once again I'm back to why is it so necessary?

Oh nadgers, I’ve just seen the clock and I’ve got to go out for the night. Er, can someone fill the rest in for me please, my door just went and so must I....

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I watched a lady once dive into her handbag, which was in the passenger footwell, rummage around, sort of half looking up half down, one hand on the wheel, pull out a pack of fags, lighter, unwrap fags and light one whilst leaning on the steering wheel with her elbows.

I'd happily see anybody with a lit cigarette in their hand prosecuted for it, or food for that matter.

On saying that, only this afternoon I witnessed a middle aged guy in a Focus ST, come out of a mcDonalds car park, indicating right, negotiate a mini roundabout at a decent pace, indicate left , then stopped at a crossing tolet people cross and then carry on th the next roundabout where he indicated left and didn't kill anyone, swerve or endanger anyone....what's so strange about that do you ask? When he drove out of Mc Donalds he was stuffing his face with a burger.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Hay, I shot a rifle into a crowd tonight and nobody was hurt, so clearly It's OK to do that!

Lies,lies and more lies eh Weepej?
I wonder what the stats are for people causing fatal accidents while eating, drinking, smoking , phoning, at the wheel are and how they compare.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Graball, when I conjure up a scenario to illustrate how ridiculous your defence of somebody failing to be responsible in their vehicle is, it's not lying.

What do you think a police officer would've done if they witnessed this guy?

You really did shoot a rifle into a crowd of people?....or you could be lying.

yes a police officer would have pulled the guy over but that isn't concrete proof that the guy was doing anything blatently dangerous enough to endanger others, is it?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

a couple of years ago a vehicle (white pickup) I was using was parked outside a house that was burgled. Any road up, the rozzers called and I had to go the the cop shop as a potential witness. I phoned them while I was driving my tractor and told them this while I was in the interview room . Copper starts looking serious when I said that I had to rummage round the cab for a pen . I told him it was ok, because I was letting the tractor steer itself at the time (it was following a row). At this stage I had to point out I was several hundred meters from the public road .

Of course, the same policeman who pulled over the burger eating guy, would have also pulled me over, had I not been wearing a seat belt....another act that will endanger countless thousands of other drivers and pedestrians alike.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Really? So if my hand went into the bag of wine gums that I'm fond of and often have in the door pocket, transferred a couple to my cakehole and back on the wheel, you'd prosecute me?

Are we talking 3 points, 6 points, disqualification, or the full capital punishment jobbie here?

(Oh, and I'd be interested to hear your answer to my last question if you've a minute)!

We had better ban all rifles, just in case weepej feels the need to fire one into a crowd: Life in the armed forces just got a whole bunch more dangerous, not looking forward to charging down the Taleban with my BRAKE-sanctioned non-shatter plastic safety spork!

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

"BRAKE-sanctioned non-shatter plastic safety spork"

To be fair to weepej, I think he was using an allegory in his defence Robin Right, I'm ready to take up where I left off

We don’t need to research into why it’s bad to have large fluffy dice hanging from the rear view mirror do we? It's just plain common sense they are not a good thing and unnecessary. (There's that expression again).

Fortunately, it hasn’t become the pandemic that mobiles have. So although rarely seen these days no law has had to be brought in specifically related to this and fluffy dice are hopefully not a problem like mobile phone use is. There are some air fresheners which are almost as bad mind and I am also critical of them as a distraction and blind spot, like a hand-held mobile phone can be. I don’t generally use air fresheners because they are not absolutely necessary, unless I’ve had a curry and eight pints the night before.

Now I think some here think my questions have been answered, viz: -

1) Is having a mobile phone in your hand going to make your driving safer than having both hands free?
2) Is it imperative that you absolutely must take or make that call right there-and-then?
3) Do the benefits of this practice outweigh any and all other concerns over and above using a hands-free?
4) Is it impossible just to pull over and stop instead, either straight away or at the next service station?

But this is what I'm getting, plus I’ll try and think of some myself: -

1) I just don’t want to use a hands-free
2) Hands-free are inconvenient
3) They’re too expensive
4) I don’t like Hands-free and I don’t like having to stop somewhere to see what ‘important’ call I’ve missed either.
5) I don’t like the 10 or 20 seconds it takes to set them up
6) There isn’t a good hands-free on the market
7) Everyone is using Hand-held safely
8) Everyone can be taught to use Hand-held safely
9) A small minority of people may not be using Hand-held safely but I’m not one of them
10) I’ve never seen an incident or heard of one so what’s your problem?
11) There is no reliable data on the use of Hand-held and therefore nothing should have been done in law.
12) I don’t like laws and this shouldn’t have been introduced without full and proper research. (Idealistic but not realistic in the REAL world. Ref: my earlier point with the introduction of speed limits)

I don’t actually know who is on my side and who thinks I’m wrong, but the resistance to my argument, from one or two, has left me stunned quite honestly. Instead of a resounding “Yes, it was right to introduce the law while further research is carried out” I feel I'm getting repeated justifications of why we should be able to use a hand held mobile phone until we have gathered more data and research before introducing any law. And, unless I have misrepresented the SS stance there, I have to say I don’t think it’s good for a road safety campaign to try and justify using Hand-held mobile phones on that basis.

Should all laws always be thoroughly researched before their introduction? That’s probably a separate thread on its own but my gut feeling is they’re not and rightly so in many cases, including this one! This may be a poor example but when motorcyclists were ending up in A&E, or a morgue, because their heads were getting smashed in they probably didn’t have every fact and figure and I know there was a lot of opposition to them from bikers. But the trend was there for all to see and I think few today would argue it wasn’t a good thing to have made it law. No-one ever questions it, unlike dumb speed enforcement.

If we find that using a Hand-held is safe for everyone to do after all, and my own experiences and witness to absurd and erratic behaviour amounts to absolutely nothing, then make the case for it and get it repealed. If research can prove it, and the law is wrong, then no harm has been done by using the alternative method of simple, cheap Hands-free in the mean time. What worries me is the SS stance seems to be coming from ‘wait until we have proof’. Okay, I understand that!

But consider this. If you’re wrong then countless numbers of men, women and children will join the KSI list for the sake of using a safe or safer alternative. And if anyone thinks that puts us in a good light I really don’t know what else to say.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Tone, you still seem to be missing the fact that it was already illegal to use a mobile phone at the wheel on occasions where it was not safe to do so.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.