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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 00:55 
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here is another one, car hits this one really fast surely there must be a danger of flying glass etc hitting pedestrians?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BSyD-w1 ... ed&search=


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 01:39 
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weety wrote:
here is another one, car hits this one really fast surely there must be a danger of flying glass etc hitting pedestrians?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BSyD-w1 ... ed&search=


This video make me realise how very unlike normal road hazards these booby-trap bollards are. A driver with well developed hazard perception would have no reason at all to scan for a hydraulic jack rising out of the road.

I'd like to think I'd spot one, but who really knows? It's quite right and proper - even optimal - that we should give our attention to probable and improbable hazards. But booby traps do not deserve a place on the priority list, nor do they have any place being on our roads.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 02:06 
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There are quite a few of these on YouTube now. I wonder whether the footage is supposed to have been released, or whether it's the result of misconduct by the CCTV operators.

Some of them do like like utterly stupid driving, but at least one seems to be a case of a van driver believing he had been cleared to proceed, only to have the bollards rise in front of him. He hit his head on the windscreen, smashing it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 03:19 
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I saw one of these videos eventually. It seems odd how many camera angles there were and why they were recording anyway...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 09:38 
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All around where I live the highway authority are putting in passive safety signposts because about the most damaging - and dangerous - structure into which to crash is a rigid, round, narrow, vertical object (like a "traditional" signpost, or bollard). They are using safety posts for all new signs and even replacing existing signs, which are at the side of the road. Yet Manchester et al. are putting these highly dangerous structures into the path of vehicles. :o :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:49 
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MEN

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'Spear' bollards leave driver needing treatment
Monday, 20th November 2006
Mike Keegan

Image

A DRIVER needed treatment from paramedics after becoming the latest victim of Manchester's retractable bollards.
Her car was impaled by the telescopic poles on Cross Street in the city centre.

The bollards have caused many accidents and a video showing some of them has been viewed by over 300,000 on the internet.

While the debate over the rights and wrongs of the restrictions goes on, the 30-year-old driver was, according to a witness, "clearly shaken up" by the incident.

Sebastian Matthes, who took the photograph, said: "The lady was clearly shaken up and looked like she didn't know where she was. Paramedics were treating her on the steps of a shop and it was clear that she was very distressed."

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Ambulance Service confirmed that they had attended the scene.

The bollards were introduced in June as traffic calming measures but have since spiked a number of cars - with many being written off.

The M.E.N. has revealed that they are in breach of government safety rules. A Department for Transport leaflet states that bollards should be designed so that they cannot rise up underneath a passing car and council chiefs are now considering modifying them
.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 16:46 
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Why has nobody attacked the things with a hammer or something?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 16:57 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
weety wrote:
here is another one, car hits this one really fast surely there must be a danger of flying glass etc hitting pedestrians?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BSyD-w1 ... ed&search=


This video make me realise how very unlike normal road hazards these booby-trap bollards are. A driver with well developed hazard perception would have no reason at all to scan for a hydraulic jack rising out of the road.



I think the driver just assumed the road was clear? he does not even seem to slow down. I can not see someone willingly driving into it. As you as paul it is the last thing you expect to see coming out of the road.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 14:59 
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Zamzara wrote:
Some of them do like like utterly stupid driving, but at least one seems to be a case of a van driver believing he had been cleared to proceed, only to have the bollards rise in front of him. He hit his head on the windscreen, smashing it.


I have watched the video a few times and I am pretty sure he was waiting to tail the post van through.

IMO all the drivers featured knew the bollards were there but were chancing it.

Gareth


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 15:42 
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after watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lna6SCy3TZI
I am also shocked.

The penalty for ignoring a sign is £60 or £60 and 3 points.
It is not concussion or concussion of all your children or £5k damage to your car.

The person making the error of judgement is not the only person punnished. these appear to be all at faily low speed but the injury is quite severe.

I don't realy care if the get a dent or a scratch in thier car or van, but this is far more seirous

but what the hell . We are locking up people over speeding tickets, Why not try capital punishment for ignorig a road sign?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 15:51 
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In todays Autoexpress, but not found online:
Autoexpress wrote:
Rising Bollards set for a fall

The future of rising bollards - the UK's most aggressive traffic-calming measure - is in doubt following new Government guidelines suggesting they breach official safety rules. The poles, which allow through some vehicles - for example buses - but not others, have caused hundreds of write-off and injuries since they were introduced into UK city centres 14 years ago.
Last May a 63-year-old motorist died of "natural causes" after crashing into a metal rising bollard in Cambridge, and in Manchester last month similar devices tore through a woman's car narrowly missing her nine-month-old daughter.
That incident has caused officials in the city to consider scrapping the poles after a DfT leaflet was issued to councils. It said the units should not be capable of rising underneath a passing vehicle, and that driver safety should take priority over traffic calming.
Some experts are now consulting makers to whether their systems need to be modified. Cambridgeshire CC has posted a warning on its website that motorists risk car damage by passing rising bollards illegally, but drivers have complained that in-situ warnings do not spell out the dangers clearly enough.

Amazing - you are now expected to read the council website to find out in advance where it is safe to drive!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 16:00 
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Autoexpress
but drivers have complained that in-situ warnings do not spell out the dangers clearly enough.


The ones i've seen from memory have a warning something like "these bollards can rise without warning"


So who do we believe - on the other hand we have enough hazards on our roads without more tank traps appearing. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 18:13 
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A warning sign worded in English is no good - not everyone speaks English.

At the very least, they need a new road sign:

Image

:jester:

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Last edited by antera309 on Wed Nov 22, 2006 22:30, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 18:23 
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Signs do not remove the council's liability.

That's one of the first things they taught me during my law lectures. Mark my words the insurers will be pursuing the council for a third party recovery.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 16:31 
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Not sure if this has been posted before but........

http://www.biertijd.com/mediaplayer/flv ... nderen.flv

These movies kind of put it in a different light. All three of those people are obviously following too close and are trying to slip in behind the bus


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 17:28 
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balrog wrote:
These movies kind of put it in a different light. All three of those people are obviously following too close and are trying to slip in behind the bus


I don't think it really makes a difference, for two reasons.

1. The danger to people who are honestly mistaken and to innocent bystanders is clear and present, even if no videos exist of actual injuries.

2. It is illegal to set dangerous traps for people, even if the victims are breaking the law. Even if the victims were fleeing the scene of a robbery it would be illegal, let alone infringement of a road sign.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 18:02 
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Maybe these videos are only the ones they want you to see? :scratchchin:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 18:05 
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I think the issuse is not what the drivers are doing, yes some are tailgating, this is not the point.
The point the damage to the cars and the damage to the people does not fit the crime.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 18:06 
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Dixie wrote:
MEN

Quote:
'Spear' bollards leave driver needing treatment
Monday, 20th November 2006
Mike Keegan

Image


Sebastian Matthes, who took the photograph, said: "The lady was clearly shaken up and looked like she didn't know where she was. Paramedics were treating her on the steps of a shop and it was clear that she was very distressed."

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Ambulance Service confirmed that they had attended the scene.

The bollards were introduced in June as traffic calming measures but have since spiked a number of cars - with many being written off.

The M.E.N. has revealed that they are in breach of government safety rules. A Department for Transport leaflet states that bollards should be designed so that they cannot rise up underneath a passing car and council chiefs are now considering modifying them
.


If this sign is the only one there, it would be very eaasy to miss it in the second or so you glance at it, so much verbage on it, you travelling at 10 -15 mph, doing what you are supposed to be doing - looking out for padestrians wandering around in cloud cuckoo land, THEN BANG full stop, cars a right off,

IMHO these things should join gatso's and speed traps, -in the scrap yard

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 18:18 
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MEN wrote:
The M.E.N. has revealed that they are in breach of government safety rules. A Department for Transport leaflet states that bollards should be designed so that they cannot rise up underneath a passing car and council chiefs are now considering modifying them


I notice the language used on thi sissue is slowly changing from "the barriers are here to stay", to "minor modifications", to ......


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