Safe Speed Forums

Absolute utter tosh there Big Tone and you know it.

What's your motivation for stating this nonsense?

1. We're not discussing speed limits in this little side topic, we're discussing dangerous driving and country roads.

2. You don't think they do? At all? Again, I asked further up, would you support the abolition of speed limits and associated legislation tomorrow?

Yes, and country roads are also subject to speed limits which, in your example from five years ago, would have made no difference. So it seems pertinent to the discussion to me since you dragged it up in the first place.

That’s because this subject has come up before more than once and the answer has always been the same. No, I wouldn’t abolish speed limits and AFAIR that has been SS’s position. I personally have felt that the word limit is, or should be, tempered with common sense. Why?

Because a limit should be exactly that but for a reason. Think about any situation where a limit is used; the temperature gauge or tachometer in your car for examples. Why is it set so? Well it’s because the designers in R & D considered the parameters and wisely put a limit above which the engine is overheating or dangerous, and there are good reasons for this.

Here’s where you’re going to disagree with me, if you don’t already: What is happening on our roads is exactly the same as putting the ‘rev limit’ needlessly below what is safe. As such, in speed terms, it isn’t a limit in the true sense anymore but something not to be done, well, just because.

So the recent by me which was a is needlessly below what was once regarded as the safe limit. Consider too that this lower limit and all of all the other huge road and car advances, and it’s easy to see that the term limit has lost it’s original meaning. It has become a limit purely in legal terms, not in safety terms, As I have said before, if you want to talk in terms of the legality then let’s do so. It would be the shortest conversation ever because on-one is arguing about that as a fact. That is why, all around the world, the key question is why are they arsing with limits under a spurious falsehood?

I’ve mentioned before, evidence of this absurd reduction on a three lane road into Birmingham which was a but was lowered to a I’ve followed traf pols down there, several cars in front of me, all doing between 35 to 40. What would you have me do? Overtake the traf pol, flag him down and make a citizens arrest? (Yeah right). To me it shows the contempt everyone shows for a limit undeserving of respect.

Disclaimer: I may have made all this up

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Paul's admission of an early life error, where he approached a blind bend too fast, not knowing exactly what was around it, just goes to prove what we have been saying on Safe Speed for years....driving to a speed limit isn't a safe bet. Had the speed limit for that road been only 40MPH and he had gone round the corner at 40MPH and still encountered the same scenario, it would not have endorsed lower speed limits. All that example does, is prove that when driving in any speed limit, you should drive to the conditions and that includes your forward visibility.

So what is your point exactly, Weepej? Are you saying that all limits should be so low that you can't go round a blind corner within the limit, without being able to stop, or do you agree that limits just mean that you have to concentrate on the conditions presented to you and drive at a speed that is safe, regardless of a number on a pole.

Simple question, I await a complicated answer.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

As a further example of the inappropriate setting of limits I give you the lane outside our factory. This was NSL for years, was reduced to 40mph and then to 30mph. I followed a school bus up there the other day - at 45mph (which is a suitable speed).

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Don't EVER give out post code, else you'll find one Weepy (on a bike) in the area , proclaiming to all and sundry that is way tooooo fast & that the speed police need to come n and re assess the situation.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

There are no pedestrians, no junctions, lanes are physically separated and everything moves in the same direction at pretty much the same speed.

Are you sure they are not dangerous environments though? Wanna try crossing one?! I recall that sitting in a car on the hard shoulder on an active motorway is just about the most dangerous place you can be which is why you are advised to get out ASAP and get up the embankment, would you sit in a vehcile on a motorway?

Of course, if there are no cars on the motorway they are perfectly safe, with vehicles travelling down them they are extremely dangerous places for pedestrians or people in stopped vehicles though!

Perhaps another fine example of a "weepism", where scant appreciation for the truth becomes a fact. I could ,of course say that pavements are a safe place to walk, till silly cyclist decides that he's got right of way, and several kids get maimed .
But ,with a few basic safety precautions , motorways are safe, if you obey a few simple rules. ( But then,I've never seen a cyclist that thinks that rules apply to them, so what would a cyclist know of motorways).
On UK motorways with UK drivers, & UK HGV drivers, there's little risk, as these(HGV) blokes are on a time limit for safety reasons. But, the problem comes with foreign drivers,who have little regard for UK laws. ( Something like cyclists regard for road laws).
So, perhaps , champion of empty motorways ,might like to sit back and think.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Hang on! That sounds dangerously close to what I've been banging on about since I've been here on SS, and what you always evade, that conditions matter over and above, (and often below), a dumb speed limit sign.

Hec, if I knew where you lived I could almost come over to yours right now and break open the best co-op Chile white wine they sell for just £5.24; on me...

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

You can try and convince yourself that I agree with you about speed limits if it makes you feel better, but I don't and never will!

Ok; I think everyone should go no faster than a tortoise with an anvil tied around its leg.

Are you in more agreement now?

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

More ad hominem, botach, it really does nothing to help debate.



Statistically if you're going to get maimed or killed on a pavement, it'll be a motorised vehicle that does you in.



Safe if you're in a vehicle travelling in the same direction and speed as everybody else, introduce a big of fog, a stopped vehicle, a pedestrian, a queue and they immediately become very dangerous places to be,



Partisan prejudice and/or selection bias going on there I suspect.



Well, considering cyclists are not allowed on Motorways that's a fair statement.



More prejudice. All UK drivers are safe and law abiding, but foreigners are not?



Ha ha that's rich, do you not speed regularly, and was it you that say they use their mobile phone at the wheel? (although this might've been graball)



Empty motorways? Eh? I was using an empty (closed) motorway as an example, not suggesting a road safety policy!

20mph default limit in our towns and cities (enforced by a network of cameras, no speed humps or chicanes, or narrowings), with some exceptions on main roads, 50 mph blanket limit on country lanes, 80 mph on some larger motorways (again enforced by cameras with the charge for exceeding 80 the same as it is today as the report quoted by then Transport Secretary Philip Hammond suggested).

Strict liability where the driver of the larger vehicle in civil cases has to show they couldn't avoid the situation rather than simply say "sorry m'lud I didn't see them".

That's what I'd do.

Are we in agreement now?

No! Because, as ever, you have completely absolved all pedestrians of responsibility.

So, the dumber they get, the more you countenance their irresponsible behaviour and the more you dumb down safety to one issue and one alone, and the more you do a huge disservice to road safety and responsible behaviours.

Stop looking at an elephant through a microscope weepej.

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Er, they don't get dumber.

Do you mean, they're not as scared as they used to be?

Absolute rubbish! Call it dumb, distracted or just 'too busy to think of what I should be concentrating on what matters'.

Stop defending the indefensible! I think you are old enough to know exactly what I mean. I walked to school, not driven.

I was taught the Green Cross Code and my mother, who also used her 'uckin legs, reinforced that good behavior.

I didn't have anything stuck in my ears en route to school. My eyes were focused on my path, the roads and traffic - not gawping at a 'uckin smart phone and expecting everything and everyone else to avoid me!

Act like you understand or just f k off to BRAKE where you belong why don't you!

Goodnight...

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Tone, the time has come to get this TROLL BANNED, FROM THIS SITE.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I have not posted on this forum for a long time so forgive any improprieties I may make. However, I do try to keep to a "Safe Speed" ethos.

First off, why this mania, (for it can only be that), for 20 mph limits literally everywhere ? The accident statistics don't point to an urgent need for it everywhere. The original 20mph limits were supposed to be imposed on roads with a natural limit around this value, but nowadays they are being imposed, willy-nilly, on a wide area basis for non-safety reasond, to "encourage" people to use other ways of getting about. When done like this, my own experience in Warrington is that it turns everyone who drives in such areas into a criminal, and that cannot be right, surely ? Who is the law serving after all ?

Secondly, I must confess to finding some posts on this subject verging on priggishness. If the cap fits, wear it, you know who you are !

1. A person who demonstrates an exaggerated conformity or propriety, especially in an irritatingly arrogant or smug manner.

Thirdly, on the speed limit subject generally, It seems to me we need to move to permitting limits to be set at 5 mph increments, (the kph limits in the rest of Europe are in 10 kph bands or 6.25 mph). This would allow limits to more closely match road conditions, and the normal speeds of drivers, I would be happy with 20-25 in residential areas, (depending on surveys), plus 25 on the residential distributor roads, 30 on most of the others, and 40 where conditions allow. I think also there is a good case for introducing advisory limits as the Germans have done on their autobahns. My own experience suggests most German drivers do NOT tank along at high speed, most are driving at or around 130kph, (81mph) which is used as a mandatory limit and also as the advisory limit.

Finally, it seems to have been forgotten, (was it ever considered ?). that the productivity of transport resources is improved by speed, so there is an economic/safety balance to be struck, but higher speeds do improve productivity. We all know this because all transport schemes rail or road calculate benefits from time savings. Just see what resources you need to operate a half hourly train service Birmingham-London at 100 mph, and at 225 mph (the proposed High Speed Line). You will find the higher speed service uses far less resources, apart from fuel, but the fuel is not the biggest cost, and anyway would not be double at the higher speed. So this gradual ratcheting down of road speeds will have an economic impact, of that there is no doubt. Are we as a society prepared for the consequences ?

And now a question : What is a larger motorway ? They all seem large to me, it's the nature of the beast.

_________________
Good manners maketh a good motorist

Some very good points made above. What these "cut the speed limits in every rural outpost with more than two houses", fanatics, don't realise is the courier/van driver/sales rep who drives for the majority of his 8/10 hour day isn't doing the mileage that he would have been 20 or more years ago, due to reduced speed limits and increased congestion forced upon us by LAs in the form of needless traffic lights and the closing of "rat runs"..(why is a straight road between A and B such a hideous thing, that we have to call it a rat run and ban it in favour of a 2 mile diversion?...aren't roads supposed to be as straight as possible?...the romans thought so and look at what they brought us).

So the guy who used to do say 200 miles in his working day, is probably finding it impossible to do more than 160 now...unless he breaks the speed limits and turns into a leper. So everyone's economy suffers, if it depends on someone using motorised transport for their job.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Tone, you really are wasting your time trying to debate sensibly with the likes of Weepey. he twists and squirms and wouldn't admit black was black. His blinkered views of all things motoring is unfortunately a disease spreading through the country and effecting anyone who reads a newspaper and who has never driven further than their holiday destination once a year.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.