Safe Speed Forums

Not based on anything in particular. I haven't done the sums apart from a rough estimate that about 12-15 billion of the £47 or so bn in motoring revenue is VED, and part of that is eaten into in the cost of the system and chasing the chavs who don't buy discs. It really needs to be properly costed by DoT, but since no government or party has considered it I doubt the Whitehall bean counters have got their pencils going on it yet. Ditto insurance. But my gut feeling is that even if the mean sods didn't allow for the enormous contribution in duty already it ought to be possible to have VED and insurance in the cost of fuel and still pay less than a quid a litre (assuming current costs remained where they are now). Wild ass guess, sure, but I did say so.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Hold yer foot up a minute GatsoB... Unless HMG is planning on launching a load of satellites just to monitor our little journeys, there's a more-than-slight "bandwidth" problem with your/their idea. OK, it's possible for your car to know where it is from GPS - which is, remember, a unidirectional system, the satellites transmit time data and your GPS box computes your location from that - but there aren't any satellites in existance capable of receiving data in real time from some 25 million transmitters. The "download" from your car's system is going to have to be via a terrestrial system - and any terrestrial system is going to be as vulnerable as a gatso.. More so, because there are going to have to be one hell of a lot of them - microwave frequencies only propogate on line-of-sight.

It's still a pie-in-the-sky (literally) crock...

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

Well, all they're talking about is satellite charging and depending on which article it's in the technology is anywhere from 5 to 15 years away - lot's of time for those of us uncomfortable with the idea to get a visa to somewhere else . How it works in detail isn't hugely relevant. The point is that any technology based system is never going to be as good at per mile charging than fuel duty, and there's no real reason not to include VED and basic insurance in there as well. Bearing in mind that the reason for still having the tax disc for VED exempt vehicles is to prove insurance and valid MOT, if all vehicles had the minimum insurance cover paid for in their fuel and the MOT database works there would be absolutely no need for the tax disc. One downside is that VED exempt vehicles would again be paying VED if that cost was included in fuel, but I guess the majority do such low mileage that the owner's won't be paying a great deal extra.



Which is really the only thing that needs to be said about technological road charging, however the system works. Sums it up beautifully.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Surely the positional/speed data will be GPS but the interactive traffic will use mobile phone technology? I've read no papers on this rot, but that is how I'd do it technically if I was in Ernest Blofeld mode.

This would put to much of a burden on the rural travellers.

Basingwerk wrote

Where is this increase in congestion going to come from? Everyone who wants to, drives already and the population isn't increasing. What is wrong with building new roads? I've never bought into this idea that this only causes more cars to go onto the roads.

I respect your view - but I disagree.... And I've noticed you're based in Glasgow. Perhaps they could implement my suggestion in England & Wales first.

I'd have thought that doing nothing would be the cheapest, and possibly most effective, solution. Congestion is effectively a self-limiting problem, if it gets too bad people will only drive where it occurs if they have absolutely no other option - which is essentially all that the road pricing scheme is "supposedly" to enforce. Moving VED to fuel unfairly penalises those in rural situations, ditto insurance - making basic insurance part of the VED might not be such a bad idea though.

As to building new roads...? I heard Mr Darling on the wireless on Thursday morning... He repeated "You cannot build your way out of congestion" about 6 times during a 2-minute interview, so I assume that (a) this is the "soundbite du jour" of the DfT and (b) there's no way that they're going to spend any more of their ill-gotten gains on the road system.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

Alistair Darling talks exclusively in meaningless cliched soundbites. Most ministers do this to a certain extent but this guy takes the biscuit.

The M77 extension in Glasgow gives the lie to his witterings. You drive at 50-60 through the city no problem. The decrease in traffic through the suburbs is not only pleasant but safer too.

For the majority of car owners, that is quite true. However, I suspect that all will that happen if duty is placed on fuel is that there will be a lot more diesel owners out there who will be more than happy to run on cherry, veggy oil, etc (which simply means that they won't get a penny from those individuals).

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?