Safe Speed Forums

That's a bold statement.

Plenty of references here (http://www.20splentyforus.org.uk/Briefi ... c_Flow.pdf) to show that 20mph can reduce congestion, and if increasing limits on motorways (or indeed removing them altogether) results in more crashes and incidents that can slow down the throughput of the motorway.

I understand that on a busy motorway a 50mph limit enforced by average speed cameras allows for the greatest throughput of people and goods.

Purposefully slowing vehicles down on the M25 decreases congestion, it allows drivers time to make better choices about their road positioning and decreases crash frequency at junctions (a major cause of delays).

The problem with your type weepej, is that you only experience roads when there is congestion (which is usually four hours a day) and conveniently forget the other 20 hours a day but expect everyone to move at speeds for the other 20 hours, that may well be suited for congested roads....get a life and realise that things happen outside your blinkered view of the world.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Nice to see you again safedriver; good post.

I know what you mean Grabs, that’s why I refer to it/him as soft trolling. Enough to stay just the right side of out-and-out trolling and keep to his mission here.

Even when I was a kid I would be trusted to cross a road properly and safely. Not that there were many cars back then, but it went thus: Find an open space along the road, not in between parked cars. Look right left and right again. If all’s clear then cross paying attention all the time.

That’s what we all did back in the 60s and 70s but I could write a book on the stupid things I see these days! And this is what I mean by dumbing down; the very worst behaviors dictate what changes are made. It’s part of modern culture now, you have a right to act irresponsibly and blame someone else. When I was a kid I walked along roads, with and without a pavement, just inches away from traffic which could be a or up to a NSL. How on earth did I survive, especially with cars which were built like tanks by comparison...

When I have cause to drive past a school at the right time in the morning I see vacant faces oblivious to their surrounds, often with equally brain-dead mothers,(or children who have had children to be accuate), preoccupied and deaf dumb and blind with modern technology. Some do guide their children sometimes, I see, with bad language and a pull or slap bordering on child abuse. Maybe one day there will be an app on a smart phone telling them they are about to be run over, and they will look up and think “oh yeah”.

Weepej’s answer is to just do knothing by way of education or put any onus of responsibilty on pedestrians, or even give recognition that this is as serious an issue as speed, but instead slow everythnig down. That’s what irks me, one size fits all and that size is speed every time, just like BRAKE. To extrapolate this culture, if pedestrians just decide to use the roads as an extension of the pavement, all traffic will be made to slow down to walking pace for their sake instead of addressing the real problem.

Edit: And of course when these deaf dumb and blind grow up and own a car one day what does anyone think their driving will be like? (Rhetorical) We'll just have to slow things down even more, won't we...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Here is the false argument always deployed by those who want us to return to the horse age.

There is a difference between the throughput of the road, and the journey times of the users using that road.

Clearly, when a road starts getting congested, speeds tend to reduce naturally, without the need for imposing limits. I drive regularly on the M60 around Manchester, and at peak times, it is one long wall of steel, generally going along at 60, not 50, except for the bit near Stockport with a 50 limit. Ocasionally, traffic is so intense we actually get down to 20-25 mph. However, at these times, journey times get a lot longer, and that is the key issue. When a motorway is reasonably clear, a higher speed will give shorter journey times, its a matter of arithmetic. So lets extrapolate and make everyone go along the motorway at 20 mph. Presumably this maximises throughput, as it now becomes a very slowly moving car-park (and lorries too).

Why are there so many lorries on the motorways ? Surely its because these are the only roads allowing a higher speed than 40 mph ? (Oh, and some dual carriageway roads too).

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Good manners maketh a good motorist

A little question here for you to ignore Weepej, but an answer would be interesting. There are two guys driving in 30MPH limits. One has a car with a not very accurate speedo. He thinks he is doing 30MPH but in reality he's doing 26MPH. The other guy coming in the opposite direction has a spot on accurate speedo, thinks he's doing 30MPH and is in fact doing 30MPH. Which is the safer driver?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Actually, that is about the speed for maximum throughput, (which is why it is the speed that traffic tends towards as traffic load increaces.)

Unfortunatly,it is unstable! A couple of MPH each way reduces throughput fairly significantly. which is why you get the pulse waves!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Grabs, at the risk of being Adhominified ,or worse- in the words of a song "slow down ,you move too fast" - his sense of speed can't cope with the fact that speedos read low, or another can read on the nose.We all SPEED.
Odds on ,this is another question to add to the ,now growing list of questions he chooses to ignore. Weepy has a selective answer quotient. He only answers those he feels he can answer with a "weepyism". ( see some of my other posts for a definition)

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

More made up ad hominem rubbish.

More nonsense.

Speedos do not read low in the main, they are not allowed to, they only over read.

The over read is what gets you you 30mph + 3 mph buffer as somebody might compensate for their speedo's expected under read by travelling at an indicated 33, thinking it's actually 30, when it might actually be 33.

If you travel at an indicated 30 though you won't be breaking the limit as you'll be travelling between 27 and 30, unless your speedo is seriously faulty, and that's illegal.

Come on, that's a nonsense question! Seriously? You expect an "answer" for that? It sound more like a riddle with a silly answer! I should ignore it!

Horse age? Who's said they want that on here?

Why is it, weepej, that when there are road works limiting speeds to 40 or 50MPH on motorways, that they are ALWAYS accompanied by congestion and then when the road works finish and the limit becomes 70MPH again the congestion disappears in seconds...same road, same amount of traffic but NO congestion...think about it......

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Just seen this one.
As I've said many times , I suspect you are a cycling troll,and a lot of your posts suggest it .

quote="weepej"]

More ad hominem, botach, it really does nothing to help debate.[/quote]
Perhaps you might like to produce proof that my definition is incorrect .
Possibly yet ANOTHER question ,you can't answer .

[weepy wrote]
Statistically if you're going to get maimed or killed on a pavement, it'll be a motorised vehicle that does you in.
[/quote].



Not round here . The pavement seems to be the motorway of choice of those on two wheels, who have had no training. Obvoiusly you've never read some of my comments on the "joy cyclists " ( or more likely chosen to ignore them in true Weepy fashion . I'd suggest you do a search for "joy cycling" .

[quote="botach"]
But ,with a few basic safety precautions , motorways are safe, if you obey a few simple rules.



[weepy wrote]

Safe if you're in a vehicle travelling in the same direction and speed as everybody else, introduce a big of fog, a stopped vehicle, a pedestrian, a queue and they immediately become very dangerous places to be.


Once again ,you ignore the presence of driver training & rules for these situations. In this case ,a motorway becomes as dangerous as a pavement with a rogue cyclist, who "owns " the road .


botach wrote:
so what would a cyclist know of motorways

Weepy said
Well, considering cyclists are not allowed on Motorways that's a fair statement.

botach wrote:
On UK motorways with UK drivers, & UK HGV drivers, there's little risk, as these(HGV) blokes are on a time limit for safety reasons. But, the problem comes with foreign drivers,who have little regard for UK laws.
weepy said

More prejudice. All UK drivers are safe and law abiding, but foreigners are not?
Not in my experience. And have a look on some TV motoring programs .


botach wrote:
( Something like cyclists regard for road laws).

Weepy wrote
Ha ha that's rich, do you not speed regularly, and was it you that say they use their mobile phone at the wheel? (although this might've been graball)


That was my original definition for a Weepism ( Take something one might have seen as not wrong, imply that they actually said it ,and if found out, jump back an accuse the poster of some dire crime).

Take care, WEEPY- I might just ask a mod to ask you to provide proof on that accusation .

Again .Like other posters, I'll ask the question - weepy , give up answers or belt up.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Botch, seriously.

I own a car (a rather smart Audi), I have a full clean license which I've had for 25 years, I drive regularly, in town and out of town.

I also own a fleet of cycles, two of which cost more than a decent second hand car, each, and one which cost a hundred quid I use to go to the shops.

I also think a lot of people simply drive too fast and hurriedly sometimes (and some a lot of the time, and some all of the time), and without proper consideration for other road users (and that includes cyclists).

Can we stop with the silly ad hominem please!

Odd, isn't it, I am the same except car make is a British Jaguar, and I have had a clean licence for nearly 40 years, (done for speeding on my motorbike in 1971), yet I disagree with you so much on road safety and how to improve it. Could we get out of this puritanical and penal attitude to drivers and driving for a start. Billions of vehicle-miles are generated every day, yet accidents are actually few, although like everybody, I would like to see fewer. Lets remind ourselves that in the 60s, there were over 6500 killed on our roads, yet overall speeds were slower; I know this is true, I was there. Nobody goes out to try to have an accident, but some do really drive very badly; how can we turn them around to drive properly ?

So it seems to me that driving standards need to be improved, instead of just thumping people over the head. Maybe compulsory retraining if one has caused an accident, (apart from any other penalties handed out by the court). Like others on this forum, I continue to be appalled at the tailgating I see literally everywhere.

I do realise there are no easy answers at all.

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Good manners maketh a good motorist

I think you have turned the debate from another potential mud slinging and hateful argument into good debate Safedriver. (Hope it lasts).

You are so right! I also agree with weepej's last post. I too see many or most driving too fast much of the time. Where we have always disagreed, sadly, is the means of weeding out the truly bad and dangerous.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Silly ad hominenem - you started it. I'm in favour of good decent dialogue on road safety , of which I've got over 2,5Million safe miles under my belt. I'm also a cyclist with a LOT of miles on the road. My last trip ,as an adult was to cycle from Fort William to Mallaig on the old A830 . 48 miles of very bad road . I've got a licence of over 45 years with no blemishes, so stop shouting . I give cyclist a lot of time & reason , but blokes like you do no favours to the cycling cause . I'd suggest you either join the cause, or get back under the bridge on the tri cycle.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Ah the fabled "war on drivers".

I don't feel penalised whilst driving my car, why do you? We drive on the same roads right?

But those who pay to use it get screwed the most. (And please don't use the 'I also have a car' excuse...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I personally don't think that there are many drivers out there that drive "too fast" for the roads or road conditions, BUT they drive too fast for the space that they leave for themselves, their forward perception of the road, their attention span and probably their all round skill levels. The worst offenders that i see tend to be women around the 20-30 age range, who seem to think that they can drive everywhere at 40MPH, no more no less and always about 30-40 feet behind the vehicle in front whilst having a conversation with a passenger (by looking directly at them) and this includes entering roundabouts without even a side ways glance or any plan of what to do if another similar driver pulls out in front of them or any idea of which lane they are going to exit in and as for indicators...well!

So Weepej I think you general perception of everyone dashing around at the speed of sound is far fetched but there are many drivers who would be better off improving their "road reading skills" before travelling at half the speed that they do.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.