Safe Speed Forums

Yes, it is interesting. But what did you mean by 'a superior troll'. Who is, and what led you to state that?

I mean I don't believe eurostar's story, although it is an excellent and useful story.

As for why, I'm going to ask you to wait a while. All will be revealed in due course. I'm just waiting for someone to write something confirming in here, that's all.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Lap Time please



Which cat



Now you contradict yourself

You stopped having frights, yet now give up due to the risk




Now this complete twaddle, in order to reach your maximum performance, you must go beyond it to find it. As you improve, you need to find your new limit, unless you take a tumble, you are riding below your limit.



Fright = Adrenalin, this is what performance biking is all about.



It is part of the Test



For someone who is trying to now compete with push bikes, you really are knotching up the years



Which one, please supply year, model & stage, just to test your ultimate knowledge



Would you know the stopping distance of a bike from 190 mph , you claim to be a safe rider and now state you do 190 mph on a m/way.



Now really, which bike



By increasing the weight of tank & Fuel, you reduce performance & handling. The chassis is design as the ultimate being a full tank, you completley upset your balance.

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Steve

(Sigh) All this self examination and parading of my weaknesses is hard enough without you lot claiming not to believe me. God knows why I would make all this up. But to answer your questions:

Nurburgring - lap times were not recorded. We were there to learn, not race. Timing was discouraged because it was thought it would distract us. Anyway you can't get a complete lap time without doing 3 laps which we didn't get a chance to during the course. Our pace was assessed informally by noting our speed past a particular point - can't remember its name, or what speed my group was doing. (We rode in a group of about 5, plus an instructor) But I can tell you that there were 2 groups a fair margin faster than any of the others. I was in one of them. And I was on a BMW twin - the others in my group were all on R1s or Ducatis - and if I'd been holding them up I would definitely have been moved to a slower group. I got some sort of a prize - can't remember what for - and my riding was complimented by a British instructor who also happened to be a traffic officer - John somebody, with a beard - rode a black Fireblade in those days.

Which cat? I would rather not say. It's a small world, and if I tell you there's a good chance that one of you will work out who I am. I intend to hang on to my anonymity throughout this grilling! All I'll tell you is that my best result was 4th at Snetterton. Lap times were not startling because it rained.

Contradiction? No, I said I gave up because I'm scared of jail, not of crashing.

Plateau/twaddle I suppose you have a point - I didn't reach my maximum performance because I preferred to have a safety margin rather than crash. Everybody does this or journeys would be very short! But on the track I did get into a habit of sliding out of certain corners if I knew the circuit well. So I would argue that at those corners I was going quite close to the max.

Fright = adrenaline. I disagree. A fright is when you have a near miss that leaves you sweating, with a thumping heart - I don't like that feeling. and it's now very very rare. But adrenaline comes from exciitement. You can get it just by accelerating hard in a straight line. But having a K12 you wouldn't know much about that.

Emergency stop - doing it at test speeds is easy which is why I added the 20 mph bit. It's especially easy when you're expecting the examiner to tell you to do it. Go a bit faster, add in a reason to stop that you've failed to anticipate, and perhaps add a wet road, and you get a situation which almost no bikers ever learn to deal with. Whereas the average car driver, thanks to ABS, can deal with it easily. I've been on 2 courses in which you practise locking up the front wheel. Hardly any bikers have ABS, and I would bet quite a bit of money that 99% of those who don't have it ever practise skidding.

Ageism! I'm 42 now. I was a courier at 25. The oldest rider in the Tour de France this year was, I think, 38. Mind you, when it comes to competing on push bikes, I'm going for endurance rather than sprints! My average at the moment is 16 mph (including hills, traffic etc) whether I'm cycling for 1 hour or 10.

What bike? It was a Hayabusa, surprisingly. I think it was a '99 model. The airbox had been fettled a bit by a clever clogs who I met at www.200mph.org.uk. I think he also did something to enable it to rev out in second...put a resistor in, or took one out...whatever. Suzuki built in some kind of anti-flipping measure for fear of lawsuits. But it was otherwise standard.

Stopping distance at 190? Absolutely no idea. I don't think I would have done it if the nearest car had been more than a speck on the horizon. And at least I can visualise the space needed to brake from 150 at the end of the back straight at Snetterton having done it a ridiculous number of times. (Actually it doesn't take that long if you do it properly on good tyres. The Dunlop 207RR or 208 was always my fave.)

Which bike at the airstrip? The Busa of course. 184 is a fairly typical top end for a standard one if you hunch into an aerodynamic position. A lot of people believe a standard Busa can do 200 but it's baloney.

Oversized tank and its effect on handling? Cobblers! I doubt the bike's C of G was affected much. The tank would have been far less detrimental than, say, carrying a passenger.

OK, what's next? Paul, what about your sword of truth and your shield of fair play?

About a month ago. We do charge if there is proof they actually caused an accident through dangerous or very careless driving. Normally - there were drunk or on drugs. (or fell asleep as per the Selby incident) . But liaise with CPS and if court cannot convict for higher charge - will go for a lower one.



If they are behaving dangerously - by not showing full control of their vehicle, or driving a defective vehicle or well above what we can reasonably tolerate (10% plus 50 on certain stretches of road in particular (urban, full of crossings, shops and schools) - then we suspect that sooner or later they may indeed come a cropper. Hence the need for action - which can be no more than a lecture for some and a Fixed Penalty or referred to Mags for others.

In the case of the main scam merchants ... would say the system is not applied fairly in most instances. A pedantic system which does little to imporve matters.



Unforunately - we cannot prosecute a pedestrian for j-walking here. Admit we would like to do so. We have liasion officers with all schools and colleges to try to teach youngsters how to cross roads and beat officers have been known to have a quiet word with teenagers over bad behaviour.

Lot of things we can do to cyclists if we see them at it. The lads have fined for no lights, riding on pavements, abusive behaviour (like calling the officer rude names!,), ignoring one-way signs, traffic lights and so on. If they collided with a pedestrian - we do take action based on injury caused. But problem is - have to have evidence against them to prosecute - and not that easy to obtain either in reality. Lot of hits and runs with cyclist incidents.



The argument is that the car is big and goes a more than a bit faster than a bicycle. But I agree - everyone should take a cycling proficiency test before they are allowed to cycle on the roads. As for the argument that drivers should also take this test as part of a driving test ... er ... little problem of certain disabilities which may preclude them from cycling but not driving.



Not the police really- we just carry out the instructions! And er - use - ahem - discretion.


[quote=bmwk12"]


It is all the biker's fault, how do you come to that conclusion [/quote]


Cos of the silly speeds they were doing. Not talking of a 100mph ton up here . Heck - they outpaced our own lads! We end up up picking up limbs - literally in some cases.

Learning to race, means recording lap times, to ensure you are making improvements.



Assessing one point around the Nuremburg




Which BMW twin, and keeping up with R1's & Ducatis, was it the 1st time the other riders had got on a bike, staright line speed of a bmw twin, is dramaticly down compared to the jap machines. You would held them up on the straights at nuremburg in a big way



It is a bigger world than you think, without exact years, no one could pin point you.



A fright is when you have a near miss that leaves you sweating, with a thumping heart - I don't like that feeling.

Racing is all about near miss, on the very edge of performance, as all the other riders are.



Very limited excitement



Have a K12 now, which is no slouch Had the Busa, which is too low, i found. R1, Good Machine, Suz R my preffered choice for sports.




Time would of been better spent, learning not to lock the front wheel



Agreed, which is why i have the ABS, which is without doubt the best improvement made to M/cyles, except maybe for the now availabe 2 wheel drive, which i have not tried yet.



I thought they introduced the restriction in 2000, to reduce power



You managed to use a m/way without a single speck of a vehicle in the horizon, was this in the UK

An oversized tank on a BUSA, why, they already have a good range

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Steve

How many accidents in your region per month




Speed cameras and police used mobile cameras, do not hold such discretion.



Agreed




So no active safety improvements, despite the heavy pedestrian casualties each year



Another large statistic on our casualty list, without enough being done about it.

Maybe we just need more Traffic Police, instead of replacing them with speed cameras


Every time an accident occurrs, a driver has had to be driving dangerousley or without due care and attention, therefore punishable under road traffic law

Which the police choose to ignore

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Steve

Oh dear, K12...yet another list of rather tedious questions. Forgive me for not answering them. Life is too short to spend time worrying about whether you believe my "story". And with respect, you are no motorycle expert and have no experience of racing or the 'Ring. Do I really need to prove anything to you? No.

I think it would be prudent if we all take Eurostar's comments at face value, at least until Paul comes up with his promised refutation. I don't believe we are achieving anything with this interrogation.

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If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.

I don't really mind if eurostar's claims are true or not. I've taken inspiration of considerable value from them and eurostar is well deserved of my thanks.

Eurostar: Many thanks!

Everyone else: can we please end the interrogation?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

If you knew all the risks my rocker friends (some of whom are dead, and others broken-backed) and I took in our 20’s (which make some of eurostar's exploits look like a tiptoe through the tulips) you'd be right to call me an idiot. That’s the problem with guys – we take a long time to grow up, but I’d rather be late than never.

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I stole this .sig

I think this should serve as a salutory lesson to us all, a throwaway remark can generate much more correspondence than first anticipated
In this instance, I'm pretty convinced that it wouldn't have even crossed BMWK12s mind to begin an interrogation akin to sitting Eurostar in a chair and shining a 200W lamp in his face, had you yourself not suggested Eurostar was trolling.

That's quite possibly true, and the consequences were not as I would have wished. However I can't ban thoughts or phrases so as to prevent a recurrence. I think those sorts of conversation development are a fact of life for text discussion groups - and not least because there are always inhabitants who are not as they (wish to?) appear.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

[discretion-mode on]
You'll have to wait until we published the famed stats - which as Paul say - get published after numerous audits and checks.!

Seriously, it varies! Accidents never occur to order. - Some months we have more accidents than in others - whereby police investigate. There has even been a month or two where zero incidents were reported. There are of course - the minors which we know nothing of. Certainly - would say we still have less than Lancs, S Wales and others which we compare ourselves to as similar areas and police force - based on raw data in current form.

Not showing too badly overall though. But any death due to some silly error (whatever the cause) on the roads is regarded as one too many.



True - because they are set to that level. The discretion, arguably, is because we do advertise where we intend to be around here. And there is some discretion in the tolerance margin set by the police officers on the mobile scam stint.

Not in favour of cameras - as you know. But we do try to deploy the measure as fairly as we can in our patch. I cannot answer for other areas.



We can only try to instruct the Green Cross by working with our schools. I would love to see those old adverts on the telly and wardens and CSOs doing something useful like fining j-walkers and errant cyclists who place themselves and others in danger. But then - the backlash would be "Nanny State" and "Dictating".

It does work though - I got fined once in Switzerland for crossing on a "red man" when I was 14 years old. I have never ever forgotten that very strict Swiss policeman's telling off! My Swiss Uncle (Wildy's father) also gave me a ticking off and walloped her eldest brother and another cousin "for not looking after me (as their guest) properly as well!" Perhaps a little more of that kind of parental discipline might not be such a bad idea either!

A lot of motorists do actually j-walk. How many times do you see someone park the car and then just cross the road willy nilly?



True - we need more trained officers out there. Most accidents do have an element of some undue care.

If no-one has been seriously injured - and those concerned are just dealing with a dented car - best dealt with by each parties insurance companies. If one party turns out to be uninsured - then that is when we get involved.

But then - have investigated some in the past where some quirk of sheer fate simply undermined a very careful driver - little girl ran into the road in a game of chase. Blind corner and she ran into a cyclist who was stopped at the junction and knocked him into the bus waiting at the side of him. He fell awkwardly. struck his head and died later on from the injury. This happened a couple of years ago - but stays in my memory as one of the worst pieces of bad luck. Then there was the motorbiker who hit a rabbit at a fairly low speed, lost control and skidded into a car.

So .. there are some incidents which are sheer bad luck.

Things I have come across in my driving experience that I have "survived" buy good luck (or providence) depending on your beliefs.

1) Wild animal runs out in front of me (several occasions)
2) Tyre blow out on the motorway
3) Hit debris on the motorway (a tailgate that had fallen off a lorry)
4) Truck tyre blow out as I was overtaking it
5) Brick-end left a twin rear wheel on the truck in front and went through my windsreen. The fact that I was weaing singlasses saved my eyesight
6) Skidded on a diesel spill
7) Skidded on black ice
8) Truck overturned in front of me due to cross wind
9) Caravan overturned in front of me
10) Hit a fog bank. sudden zero visibility
11) Engine failure in the fast lane causing loss of power brakes and power steering.

Any one of these could have resulted in a fatality. But it didn't.

Driving always carries a risk. no mater how "safe" you try and drive.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Of course surviving those risks is in part an indication that our road safety systems are error tolerant. Few mistakes lead to crashes and few crashes lead to injuries. Few injury crashes lead to deaths.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

My point is that none of these could have been considered "mistakes". They represent typical risks that we take every time we drive.

These are the "highlights" of my 1million miles of driving. There have been more but it has never put me off.

Life is a risk. More people die if MRSI in hospital. Twice as many people commit suicide. 20 times as many die through poor diet, lack of exercise, drinking or smoking. My father and mother-in-law died of cancer before they reached retirement age. I intend to make the most of my days on this planet.



I am 45 years old this year. The kids are almost grown. I attitudes are more like the were in my 20s than my late 30s. I have been the responsible adult, husband and father. Now its time to burn the candle at both ends again

They may call it the mid-life-crisis, but to me there is no crisis involved. I am having fun and long may it continue. Fortunately my wife feels the same way so we are looking forward to having the best years of our lives together....

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Speed camera policy Kills

The circumstances that cause a minor, can cause a fatality. For instance, a vehicle pulls out a side turning which results in a minor impact, due to the other driver spotting the hazard.

No one gets hurt, however the driver that pulled out has made a fatal error. Had the police intervened at this point, the driver may well take alot more care in the future, if the police were to issue points and a fine.

The driver in error, continues unpunished, the next time he pulls out, and the other driver does not see the hazard, it could result in death, if the impact speed is higher.

The police should deal with the minors in order to avoid the major's




both the Police & the Government put the emphasis on the motorist, the last advert of where a pedestrian stepped out in front of a car blamed speed. At no point did it highlight the fault of the pedestrian for running into the road.

Using Speed as being at fault, removes the emphasis on the real problems that cause death on our roads





I would call that child abuse, and the parents should of been dealt with. Parents are responsible for young children that do not know better



Must of been a big rabbit, i have hit one or 2, which made no differance, maybe i am lucky



However their are much more taht are sheer poor driving, which go without any penalty

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Steve

Usually the driver would learn from the increase in his insurance premium and the loss of the no-claims. More likely to take more care to avoid unaffordable policy - perhaps? Reason why we do not attend "minors" - is because something more major usually requires our attention most of the time. (Not doughnuts and tea in the canteen either! ) We have to use our resources to sort out the majors and insurance companies do inflict harder punishments for minor incidents than we could.
We deal with minor crunches if person turns out to be uninsured as this is an offence.


:


Oh - I agree. The adverts should show a series of the mistakes people make in order to educate. We need to show the error of stepping into road and how this affects a cyclist, biker and driver. The next commercial brake can show the dangers of driving or riding with one or more element of COAST missing - and how this prevent choice of a safe speed to negotiate a hazard. There are so many missed opportunities because of a focusing on one aspect alone.




Very easy for a child to slip your hand and run off. Been there with my own as kids. You take your eyes off the little tinkers for one second and they are up to mischief. Kids get carried away in a game - this little girl ran out of play street into a main road. Parent may not have realised they had run that far so quickly either. Not easy to spot from a driver's perspective as this appeared like a normal junction.



Was a largish rabbit. Depends on the skill of the rider as well. Novice may well lose control.


Lot of minor incidents do go unchecked by police because of low speed impact and trivial injuries. But the person held liable very possibly learns lesson via insurance loading.

I think Eurostar is right to not give too much away. It is a small world. From his bike, his mods, his association with 200mph.org and my contacts with busa people I could find out he was now - I think this grilling is pointless. If you are that concerned about him ignore him. What do they say? "Don't feed the Trolls"!

I have been down a similar but much less extreme route. I always had a motorbike but on the whole only had small bikes or dirt bikes. I started despatching in Londo in the 80's - it was crazy and I often hit really stupid speeds in town especially racing with other riders. In the summer it would be open face helmets, vests and no gloves. It was a real buzz and I walked away when I realised that the buzz took over from the safety side. I then got involved with long distance despatching which was less extreme but still meant the occassional speed sesh.

I recently bought a sport bike, nothing too mental but a huge step for me. I am going to have to sell it as I will either kill myself or lose my licenec. I genuinly think I minimise risks to others, I am lucky enough to live in a relatively quiet area but I do think that the ability to speed and accelerate is like a sexual urge at times - I can't keep away from it!!

As another coincidence I also cycle. I can get a similar buzz from a thrash in the woods. The motorbike will probably go in treh summer and be replaced by a plodder os a dirtbike or a big holiday!

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I should be so lucky