Safe Speed Forums

So they are, but there are parties on both sides who are unable to "deal with it", and we see the cycling side of this on the forum that sparked this thread. I personally want nothing but peace and light to reign supreme, and am happy to give cyclists sufficient room and to watch out for them, and expect reciprocity in this arrangement. Wnat could be more reasonable?

As for the tax, you and I may be car drivers and pay our income tax, VAT, council tax and the rest, but we also pay that bit EXTRA - vehicle excise duty - which cyclists do not. This doesn't stop them agitating for separate facilities, whilst also expecting the existing roads with their associated street furniture (some of which is cycle-specific) to be maintained. This is what is seen as unfair, and what we need the debate around.

Granted, but as someone has already said the majority of the budget for roads comes from council tax, not the road tax. We all pay council tax, so why should cyclists be taxed, and why even bother getting hot under the collar about it as we know it would never happen. It seems to me like half the cars in London don't have road tax so how they could ever begin to try and apply it to bikes I don't know.

As only a small percentage of tax from the road tax actually goes to maintaining the roads they should change it's name to a pollution tax or something similar. I used to pay less tax on my Smart Car as it polluted less. So I pay no tax on a bike as it doesn't pollute at all, apart from the extra carbon dioxide wheezing from my lungs! And before anyone labels me an environmentalist I removed the cat from my Skyline fuel-guzzling monster to give me more power! I'm just suggesting that calling it an environment tax or pollution tax might make it a bit easier to understand.

and CJB to add to your last point what's wrong with "your" or my tax maintaining cycle specific road furniture? As I see it the more cycle friendly the roads are the more people are going to turn to bikes to get to work and the easier motorists are going to be able to get though traffic.

My personal feeling is that the main reason motorists get annoyed with cyclists is that when they are sitting in hours of rush hour traffic jams and see cyclists cruise past they get annoyed and frustrated that their expensive executive car can't do that. Personally I could see the advantages of riding a bike in a city, so that's what I did. Not to mention I find cycling in London great fun and you get fit doing it!

Er, there is no such thing as "Road Tax". The correct name for it is "Vehicle Excise Duty", and the total revenue from it would not even come close to paying for the roads. The "Road Fund" was wound up in the 1930s.

The real revenue-earner from motorists is fuel duty.

Regards,

Peter

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Sorry Captain Correctness, you knew what I meant!

Ah - but at least they are nice and warm and listening to Wogan!

And you think you are getting fit - all those fumes? And cars do not generate them.

But wait until you cyclists outnumber drivers in London ... then you will get the Ken-gestion charges too!

Exactly... The problem is often that 'cycle specific' road changes are usually not appreciated by the cyclists either. There are plenty of examples of 'restrictions' which actually benefit the people using them (on average). It is odd that cyclists don't try and 'sell' cycling to drivers though - either as a 'why don't you cycle your 10 min journey to work' or 'I'm not really making your journey any slower, cause I'd only be in a car otherwise'.

Fundamentally, the cycle campaigners seem to be mostly idealistic or enviromentaly driven, rather than interested in transport.

Sean

I have been a member of the cycling plus forum for about a year after seeing an article on the ABD website.

Apart from a couple of exteme cases they are generally all that anti-car. Most of the regulars are anti red light jumping / pavement riding / unlit cycles. The general consensus is that if they are seen to stick to the rules then they are more likely to get respect from other road users.

I try to get in with the motorists point of view but one of the cyclists usually beats me to it.

And one of their members is the ABD cycling rep.