Safe Speed Forums

I think we're all assuming that electric cars have got as good as they're going to get. This is an industry still in its infancy, and I'm expecting huge improvements in the first 10 years. The EVs we have now are (by comparison) like IC cars were in 1910, IMO!

Also, although the grid is close to capacity, it is not consistently so. The trick is managing demand to even it out so we're not dumping huge amounts of energy into the power station cooling towers at off-peak times. I think "vehicle-to-grid" infrastructure might have a future too. This is where the grid can "nick" electricity from plugged-in vehicles at peak times and "pay it back" later.

I'll be the first to admit that they're not "the" answer, but I think they're "part of" the answer.

I've probably not been as serious as I should. The power grid thing is surmountable because I imagine most charging would take place off-peak.

Likewise ,but how long before we end up being dependant on imported supplies .It's of little use transferring motive requirements to the domestic supply ,claiming that fossil fuels are running out if generated energy doesn't increase to keep pace with the new demand placed on it by vehicle charging .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I'm not going to be an early adopter!

I have visions of the Apple iPhone 4 buyers queueing outside the Nissan showroom to be the first to get a Leaf. Not.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Energy is not dumped into cooling towers when not needed !
They are used to cool the steam down after it has passed through the turbines.
If CHP was used the efficiency would go up a lot and there would be less steam....
The level of inefficiency in power distribution may well be 6% on the grid, but putting your excess "vehicle" power into the grid from a domestic location means it will be a lot higher (if fact it doesn't happen....it is just "used" locally)

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

But battery technology is not in its infancy. And the efficiency of the IC engine has probably tripled since 1910. A tripling of battery life in the next 100 years isn't going to let EVs supplant ICVs

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Agreed. the only realistic way in which battery performance will be significantly improved is by using rare (and extreamly reactive) chemicals. Large scale deployment of EV's also have the (Possibly even bigger)problem in that providing the compact high power magnets for the motors will require the use of large quantities of "Rare Earth" minerals. (Emphasis is on the "Rare" )

A much better solution is to find some industrial route that alows the synthasis of non-fossil derived, liquid chemical fuels that can be used in ICE's of a more or less conventional design. (at room temperature, and at room presure or under mild presure such as LPG)

It is a combination that really cannot be beaten!

(As an intrim, My choice would be to use non-fossil derived hydrogen to "Platform" oil or even coal into LPG, basically using the Carbon as a vehicle for carriying the non-fossil hydrogen to the vehicle user without having to go through all that cryogenic nonsense! This has the added advantage that most vehicles currently in use can be easily adapted to use the synthetic fuel. Of course the government/manufacturers wouldnt like that. They both want a solution that requires us to all scrap all our old vehicles and go out and buy shiny new (and no doubt, very expensive) ones! )

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Zinc-Air fuel cells. Any xxx-air fuel cell is better than a simple battery because it doesn't have to carry the oxidiser around. And air would be relatively easy to meter for taxation purposes thus achieving the holy grail of the IRS - taxing air.


How

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

That would be funny if it wasn't so true

With regard to Hydrogen production, the big problem is that it need to be "scraped" off of other compounds, a process which (somewhat ironically) is currently acheived using electricity!

A bbc article regarding hydrogen fuel:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7496331.stm

I rather like this one...

http://esvc000085.wic012u.server-web.co ... uction.doc

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

In effect, I think that's still "wasted". Yes, it passes through the turbines and then re-condenses into water in the towers but what happens when the electricity demand falls? They can't quickly adjust the amount of setam the boilers make in response to power demand, so the steam just ends up in the colling towers whether it has done a lot of useful work, or just a little bit of useful work.

I agree CHP would be good, but that doesn't work well with our relatively few, enormous power stations. It's at its best with larger numbers of smaller power stations that are positioned closer to the dwellings (or whatever) that is going to use the heat.

the steam from the turbines is not the steam coming from the cooling towers, not directly.
the water that is turned to steam to drive the turbines is very pure water and is in a closed-cycle system.
Nit-picking I know...

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

but the steam from the cooling towers must get hot somehow

The steam generators are running all the time though....not just when the 'leckky is needed.
Even when a generator is down the steam plant is still running...it takes quite a bit of energy/time to heat the steam to several hundred degrees...
I remember making new parts for a steam plant at a "sugar factory"....the only time the steam generator (boiler) was shut down was when it was broken....because the cooling led to damage anyway so there was no benefit in shutting the boiler down.
What I find really funny is the "environmentalists" depiction of pollution as the cooling tower at a power station....loads of polluting steam.....

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Water is a "Greenhouse Gas"

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Who cares.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

That's really what I'm saying!It's the steam generators that use the energy. If it's not turning the generators, it's being wasted. The trick is to even out the demand as much as possible so that the geenrators are always turning!