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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 21:27 
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Gizmo wrote:
During the last protest my wife (nurse) were being given ration cards so they could fill up at designated filling stations. The blockade ended prior to implementation.

Just got to fill up the two cars and three bikes jus in case. :wink:

As for me.....I am quite happy working from home is required.

I get my fuel fully funded from the company (for which I pay benefit tax) But I fully support the protest


I seem to remember that Truck drivers didn't get a ration card, just to get to work, yet without Truck drivers, this country would grind to a halt within the week.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 21:31 
Herbie wrote:
johno 1066

The figure of 67.7% of the price you pay at the pump being Tax is current based on a price of 90p a litre. This was laid out in detail on the BBC news site on Monday or Tuesday.


Duty = 47.1p

Product = 23.2p


Retailer/Delivery = 6.3p

Vat = 13.4p



BBC Link



Well, we could argue the toss for a month of Sundays, all I know is that the current costs are unsustainable and the Government has alot to do with those costs.

I couldn't care less how they do it, but they could start by employing less Guardian reading 5 a day fruit executives.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 21:49 
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I have just returned from France, and Diesel in central Brittany was 78p per litre.
There is a wide variety of prices in France - with motorway stations naturally selling at a higher price, but supermarkets are big retailers, and even the same supermarket chain has differing prices.
The Euro allows for a much finer adjustment of prices, with figures from Vannes on the south coast of Brittany at 1.11 Euros, to a few miles out of town at 1.103!
Lubricating oil is SO MUCH cheaper than here, as are headlamp bulbs, wiper blades, and cleaning materials (but they DO pay for water!!).

By way of comparison, at a cafe in Ploërmel, Coca Cola and Orangina were 3 Euros/glass, wine, cidre and beer were 2.50 Euros/glass!!
2.5 Euros = £1.75, while 3 Euros = £2.13 :o
When you look at the standards of their Hospitals, public buildings and roads, with neat verges, recent lines and furniture, and public art, you wonder how they pay for it all, with not a speed camera or toll in sight in Brittany!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 16:27 
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And the latest on possible fuel protests... and I can hardly believe this myself, even of this government... they're threatening to take away hauliers' licences. :o

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 31,00.html (My bold)

Quote:
Protest hauliers warned that they may lose licences
By Valerie Elliott, Countryside Editor
POLICE chiefs have told hauliers who protest at British refineries this week to expect a tough response.

Whitehall has ordered police to report any lorry used in any protest to the Vehicle Inspectorate. Hauliers, who plan demonstrations at refineries from 6am on Wednesday, have been told that they risk losing their licences to operate if their vehicles are involved in any blockades.

Brynle Williams, the man behind the stand-off at the Stanlow refinery, Cheshire, that provoked the fuel protests in 2000, and who is now a Conservative member of the Welsh Assembly, has contacted Treasury ministers in an attempt to head off trouble.

He has told John Healey, the Financial Secretary, that freight operators are very angry and that the country should expect more protests.

Mr Williams has offered to mediate because of his close contact with the industry.

He said yesterday that he had spoken to Mr Healey by phone. “I told him these threats are very real and that people were angry about government attempts to prevent peaceful protests, which is an infringement of civil liberties,” he said. “Police have made clear that hauliers can expect tough treatment from vehicle inspectors.”

Mr Williams has told the Treasury that the real threat to the country will be if hauliers “park up” and cease deliveries until fuel duty is reduced.

He apparently told Mr Healey that he knew operators who between them account for 2,000 lorries who were prepared to take this action. Roger King, the chief executive of the hauliers’ association, has told the Treasury that the mood among his members was hardening. He said that the Treasury should introduce a regulator to cut duty on fuel as prices rise.

Senior figures in the industry, however, are uncertain whether hauliers and farmers will join the demonstrations on Wednesday. They do not wish to play the prospect down in case the situation escalates on the day.

It is clear that some hauliers and farmers would prefer other forms of action. Besides a plan to leave trucks at a standstill and take a week’s holiday, another plan is to have rolling convoys on motorways. South Wales Hauliers are planning a 100-mile convoy along the M4 on Friday, from Crosshands in West Wales to the Magor junction just before the Severn Bridge crossing. This convoy may also decide to show its strength outside a Tesco distribution depot in Magor.

In the South West, Richard Haddock, a beef farmer who led refinery protests in Plymouth in 2000, has switched tactics and is opposed to returning to the refineries. Instead, he is trying to organise a protest at every filling station in the region to coincide with the start of the Labour Party conference on September 25.

“It really is up to ordinary motorists and the general public to join this protest,” he said. “The whole community can give a message to the Government this way. We rely on cars in the countryside. They are not a luxury and fuel prices are hitting everyone. The bus companies say they will have to put up prices and even a nurse at my GP surgery complained to me about extra costs travelling to work and going on visits.”

Jim Macauley, a haulier from Blantyre, near Glasgow, said that he did not expect many protests north of the Border. “The solution is a political one and what we need is an essential-users’ rebate to compensate for high fuel costs,” he said. “That is what ministers should be working on.”

Andrew Spence, a haulier, farmer and spokesman for the Fuel Lobby, from Consett, Co Durham, said that he was due to hold talks today with Scotland Yard. He confirmed that an approach had been made by French hauliers for British protesters to help to close the port of Dover. The French planned to close Calais.

“I put it to my guys in the South East — they are up for it and I’ve left it up for them,” he said. “I’m not sure they’ll do it, but there’s a strong possibilty that a farming contingent will go to Dover.”


While I think blockading is going a step too far I feel that these sort of government threats are a disgraceful abuse of power. Stuart Harding case writ large.

Words fail me at this point. Well, polite ones anyway. Suffice to say that once again the government have made this country just that little bit more unpleasant to live in than it was last week.

Bastards. :furious:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 16:44 
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On what grounds will their licences be removed?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 17:02 
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I expect same reason as for banning Stuart Harding from driving for a non-motoring offence - being a pain in the backside instead of a good little citizen who doesn't ask questions or make waves. What legal grounds there are I have no idea. Even if they only use it for people involved in an actual blockade it seems heavy handed and undemocratic to directly threaten the livelihoods of protestors. Fines, okay. Prison, okay if the offender can go back to their living afterwards. Hell, these days even ASBOs. But this seems the meanest of mean spirited threats, and may even be counter productive if protestors feel their liveilhoods are already at risk without that.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 20:35 
I'm beginning to wonder whether the only way to make this totalitarian Government see sense to to start direct action. You can only do so much legally and if a Government starts using totalitarian meaures or changing laws to force their will against the people then how else do people fight back?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 00:24 
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This BBC graphic is very revealing:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/p ... html/3.stm

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 09:48 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
I have just returned from France, and Diesel in central Brittany was 78p per litre.
There is a wide variety of prices in France - with motorway stations naturally selling at a higher price, but supermarkets are big retailers, and even the same supermarket chain has differing prices.


We bought at a supermarket near Boulogne on Friday at EUR 1.07.

Petrol on the other hand was very expensive - around EUR 1.56 - more than £1 per litre at current exchange rates.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 09:57 
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Herbie wrote:
The current tax on fuel is 66.7% not 85%.


That is the fuel duty levy, not the overall tax take as VAT is added on top. The duty levy is a fixed amount, but VAT is of course a percentage and will increase in proportion to the retail cost.

Moreover, as an oil producing nation, the UK benefits from the increased price on world markets.

There is no good reason why the duty levy cannot be reduced and the overall tax take/profit remain the same. This would reduce the burden on the end user of the fuel.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 19:13 
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But surely if we reduced fuel prices by and significant amount then that tax is going to have to be recovered elsewhere? Personally I'd like to see a reduction in big government and taxes reduced on the whole, but that isn't going to happen overnight.

How about leaving the fuel duty as it is and subsidising those who can't afford it? Why not let the market set a price for motoring? Ok I know what your going to say, that the duty on it means that there can never be a true market price, but since the idea of road pricing was introduced, fuel duty is going to be here to stay, at least in the medium term. Either that or other taxes would have to be put up. I'm happy to have the idea critisised and ridiculed, 'tis just a thought! :bunker:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 19:26 
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Capri2.8i wrote:
But surely if we reduced fuel prices by and significant amount then that tax is going to have to be recovered elsewhere?


No. Because of VAT and North Sea oil revenues, the treasury is now getting a hell of a lot more than it did.
If they just removed the VAT component of the fuel duty it would make a difference of almost 9p a litre, without costing them a penny.

Cheers
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 19:32 
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Pete317 wrote:
If they just removed the VAT component of the fuel duty it would make a difference of almost 9p a litre, without costing them a penny.Cheers
Peter

Didn't think it would be as much as 9p! Still make it mid to late 80's, especially for diesel. Will that be enough to abate the protesters?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 19:48 
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r11co wrote:
Herbie wrote:
The current tax on fuel is 66.7% not 85%.


That is the fuel duty levy, not the overall tax take as VAT is added on top. The duty levy is a fixed amount, but VAT is of course a percentage and will increase in proportion to the retail cost.

Moreover, as an oil producing nation, the UK benefits from the increased price on world markets.

There is no good reason why the duty levy cannot be reduced and the overall tax take/profit remain the same. This would reduce the burden on the end user of the fuel.



The figure of 67.7% dose include the VAT, see the link on the previous post. Obviously these figures will have changed since posted as it was based on 90p a litre.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 00:01 
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Every price increase in the retail sector attracts VAT at 17.5 %.
It does not matter whether it is fuel, fabric or fly paper.
The net result is the Government does not really care if prices go up - they get their cut!
The ONLY thing they worry about is how it makes them look - hence the determined effort to blame the current prices on the toubles abroad. In fact, despite this being a global problem, WE STILL PAY THE MOST FOR FUEL, and CARS!
THEN we pay again in ROAD TAX, and finally they give a bunch of charlatans free reign to collect as much revenue as possible from people who drive above the posted limits (many of which are conveniently lowered) and call it ROAD SAFETY as people continue to die.

A friend just returned from Germany tells me fuel was 50p a litre. I asked if the roads were in a dreadful state because of the lack of tax revenue!!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 00:42 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
hence the determined effort to blame the current prices on the toubles abroad.


Yep, the good old central goverment ploy. I believe they are using the new software package called Microsoft Finger Point.

As Mr "Stealer" Brown said when he stood up on his hind legs this yesterday..."Its not us, its those rotters in opec who are causing all of this "...."Shhh, mustn't let on that we are greedily sucking 80 pence out of every pound of fuel"

I expect the Liar was stood next to him with his Jack Nicholson "Joker" grin plastered all over his two faces.

And if you argue with Liar, Two Jags will give you a smack in the mouth

:twisted: :twisted:

Ahh nothing like a bit of satire :D

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