Safe Speed Forums

I thought they were type approved for only one per gantry? Wouldn't it be nice if they've always used more than one per gantry (including M25) and need to give money back

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Andrew.

Message sent out at work today

Now from what I can tell this is rumour, but there are quite a few web sites that give the same information although some say the go live date was the 2nd. No source that I can find will state where the information came from other than a "reasonably dependable source".

276 seems to be a lot to me, yes I know there are loads, but I tend avoid that stretch of road and cut across country to Solihull instead - if they want me drive through narrow country lanes and urban routes at school start time rather than use the motorway, then I don't mind! But I have tried it, and as other have reported, the gantries are packed with cameras, so rather than having an overloaded motorway where everybody is at least looking at the vehicle in front, we have an overloaded motorway full of overstressed drivers that are staring at their speedos all the time.

I suspect that this is an April Fools joke, as other sources have said that the Cameras will only be active during periods when the variable speed limit is active, and 2mph is much too low unless of course the intention is to cause as much panic breaking as possible. So time to look a bit deeper...

Indeed the official source (Highways Agency website) says that in addition to the fixed and controlled CCTV cameras, that there are ANPR cameras which will be used to "Measures real traffic behaviour, allowing us to tailor traffic management tools and assess the impact of Active Traffic Management on journey times. This information can then be used to improve the system and the way in which it operates". Yeah, right... so the Highways Agency is tracking all vehicle speeds by catching us on camera and reading the number plates.

However that apparently isn't for speed enforcement, because in an incredible waste of time and money, that function has been duplicated by the West Midlands Police who obviously have way too much taxpayers money to throw away on pointless duplication. There are also "Digital Enforcement Cameras" that will obviously measure your speed and recognise your number plate... these are associated with ladder markings and will operate "once mandatory speed limits are introduced" for the purpose of "ensure compliance with the overhead signals for the safe and effective operation of the scheme in reducing congestion and the impact of incidents". Forgive me if I sound stupid, but are not all speed limits mandatory, in which case these cameras are running all the time.

They are probably using the income from speeding fines because they can't think of any other way of spending it, so the people to blame for the pointless waste of money is (yet again) the party that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, but will instead keep pushing bullshit at you until you believe that you are drunk: New Labour.

Have we noticed any great improvements yet in traffic flow or reduced numbers of accidents? No, but if possible, they have managed to get thousands of drivers even more pissed off than ever, and driving in an even more dangerous fashion. The only plus point is that if you are being tailgated by an artic, then they cannot read your number plate!

Rewolf,

I sent an email to the Highways Agency inquiring about the said cameras, and this was the reply I got which is further back in this thread.



From what I read of the above the cameras have been live since November 2005 and they are not being used when the Mandatory limits are switched off (althought the capability is there) I’d say it was an April fools joke (and hope I’m write). As far as the system goes IMO it’s just another money raising experiment. The only part of it that will be of any benefit with congestion will be the use of the hard shoulder as a fourth lane, albeit it there will be more money raising cameras brought into action.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

its as opposed to advisory... which most motorway gantry speed limits are.
but yes its poor wording, they just need to add the word variable after mandatory to clarify if the cameras are on all the time or just when its variable. the latter i hope & suspect.



how can you have noticed if you go cross country?

the section i use, at the times i use there is a positive effect as mostly i am able to travel at a constant (reduced) speed along that stretch rather than the manic stop/go it often was.

sure it still grinds to a halt on occasions but no system can mitigate for traffic density higher than the road can physically cope with.

plus the system isn't fully rolled out yet anyway.

just checking some wordings too....

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051671.htm

I notice because the tailbacks start before J3 where I come off, sometimes back to J1. Today I decided that it would be interesting to go via the motorway, and I sat keeping pace with the trucks counting cameras, and including the CCTV ones and the ANPRs at the on and off slips between J3A and J5 (northbound only) I counted 87 of them, but I probably missed a few were I had to filter into the M40 traffic.

Is it working? Well today on the way home (3:15pm ish) the northbound traffic was stationary back to J2...

But we haven't hadthe financial returns

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

The limits go up and down like a yoyo - if they are really enforcing at limit +2mph they'll pay for the system in a long weekend.

I think this may be an urban myth.

secondly anyone know how long the limit must be visible before valid?

I wonder how many seconds they allow people going through a 50 that just dropped to 40, before pinging them.

If you stated the limit showed 50mph, I wonder how they could prove otherwise?

read my last post diy.

the higher limit effectively remains for 10seconds after the sign changes.

Just got back from Derbyshire.
Driving up on Saturday along the M42, the traffic was light and visibility was good despite some light rain - but all the gantries were showing a 60 limit.
Driving back this afternoon, the traffic was heavy-ish, and the rain was really chucking down - the road surface was awash and the spray limited visibility to around 100m. Guess what? No gantry limits whatsoever.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

I've not been to the M42, but if they are working on the same principle as the ones on the M25, there will be a time delay of at least two minutes before enforcing at a lower limit after a change of aspect. The proof of what it says is pretty watertight - a whole string of relays in series that give you a closure for each displayed speed, checking bulbs are lit for the red ring, the aspect.. and any other things that need to be checked.

new (temporary) yellow signs on the slip roads:



(which it wasn't)

until J5 where i noticed all the gantry signs said 50, i.e. no red X over the hard shoulder. accompanied by the matrix sign:



looking forward to a few weeks of chaos while they play with the system.

I've just come back home from Lancs, and travelled along the M42 from the A42 down to J3A/M40. I have RoadAngel™ in my car, and it was going berserk! No variable speed limit had been set, but I lost count of the number of times I got a camera alert - it must have been 8 or 10.

The best advice I can give if travelling along this route is not to exceed 70 and to obey all variable speed limit signs.

the cameras are only used to enforce the VSL ..... apparently.

And aren't even type approved for that.

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Andrew.

have you been able to back this up (yet) ?

Nope, heck I haven't even seen the cameras, but there hasn't been even one post over on PePiPoo from someone getting a NIP from these cameras, I have read a reply from the people in charge of the system stating that they are "only testing", I haven't seen a type approval document for them (and the latest type approval documents seem to be available online again) and a certain person who goes by the name "Insider" sais they aren't working.

Also the only people who have ever said they are working are the ones who installed the system.

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Andrew.

The cameras are not working yet, I sent an FOI to the Highways agency and this was their reply:

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

well i drove down the shoulder between 5 & 6 this evening..... i seemed to be the only one doing it which meant a long line of lorries in L1 to my right.

slight flaw being the layouyt of the sliproads meaning it wouldnt really be using unless you wanted the next junction.. and the tempation to zip down the inside of the trucks to get there, as far as i can see its going to need some pretty special markings at the slips to avoid this!

If no-one else is using the hard shoulder, it's probably quicker to just exit and rejoin at every junction than to sit in the queue.