Safe Speed Forums

You did, and we showed how critical important factors aren't accounted for (as opposed to being merely 'dismissing' them).
If you are willing to dismiss these important factors that's up to you, but your level of comprehension on road traffic collision and injury causation and prevention, and especially camera effectiveness, in all your posts, means you are not really worth arguing with to be quite blunt.


Not necessarily. You keep insisting on taking this factor purely in isolation while outright ignoring and dismissing significant real-world factors.


Which is safer, taking your journey on a motorway (the highest speed road), or another type of road?
Have you yet figured out the difference between water and cyanide, or do you want to continue 'looking stupid' every time you post?

Have you managed to figure out where you got your 50% claim from?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Joking aside, I think it's a sad and scarely reflection on this governments safety attitude when people who are supposed to work in the interests of "road safety" can quote such ridiculous figures like 50% without substantiating them and then go on to dismiss valuable data such as A/100mvkms figures as if they are "folklore".

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Ooops! How remiss of me, you are an idiot as well.

I think you shoudl both have a look at this and then come back in a few months time when you have understood it.

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prev ... index.html

That's dangerous behaviour. You should reconsider your style especially when considing who you are associated with


I've had a quick scan of the full report. I can't help but notice that report states the standard claims for reductions at camera sites, but without accounting for the very basic RTTM (let alone bias on selection). It doesn't bode well does it?
Tell you what, why not just point to where they accounted for the effects mentioned like displacement and fatigue. The latter is mentioned, but not accounted for, so its not like it should be dismissed.
Where is your 50% claim within it?
If you can't answer these, why give the link when it does nothing to address my post to you?


Which is safer to drink, water or cyanide? Is your answer cyanide because less people are killed by it?

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

A quick scan and it's dismissed, well done, you have to laugh don't you.
So the world's experts on the subject including:
Contributors
Editorial guidance
Editorial Committee
Margie Peden, Richard Scurfield, David Sleet, Dinesh Mohan, Adnan A. Hyder, Eva Jarawan, Colin Mathers.
Executive Editor
Margie Peden.
Advisory Committee
Eric Bernes, Suzanne Binder, John Flora, Etienne Krug, Maryvonne Plessis-Fraissard, Jeffrey Runge, David Silcock, Eduardo Vasconcellos, David Ward.
Contributors to individual chapters
Chapter 1. The fundamentals
Chair of Technical Committee: Ian Johnston.
Members of Technical Committee: Julie Abraham, Meleckidzedeck Khayesi, Vinand Nantulya, Claes Tingvall.
Writers: Jeanne Breen with contributions from Angela Seay.
Boxes: Brian White (Box 1.1); Hugo Acero (Box 1.2); Adnan A. Hyder (Box 1.3); Claes Tingvall (Box 1.4); Jeanne Breen (Box 1.5).
Chapter 2. The global impact
Chair of Technical Committee: Robyn Norton.
Members of Technical Committee: Abdulbari Bener, Maureen Cropper, Gopalkrishna Gururaj, El-Sayed Hesham, Goff Jacobs, Kara McGee, Chamaiparn Santikarn, Wang Zheng-gu.
Writers: Angela Seay with contributions from Andrew Downing, Meleckidzedeck Khayesi, Kara McGee, Margie Peden.
Boxes: Vinand Nantulya, Michael Reich (Box 2.1); David Sleet (Box 2.2); Ian Scott (Box 2.3); Liisa Hakamies-Blomqvist, Desmond O’Neill (Box 2.4); Chamaiparn Santikarn (Box 2.5); Lasse Hantula, Pekka Sulander, Veli-Pekka Kallberg (Box 2.6).
Chapter 3. Risk factors
Chair of Technical Committee: Murray MacKay.
Members of Technical Committee: Peter Elsenaar, Abdul Ghaffar, Martha Hijar, Veli-Pekka Kallberg, Michael Linnan, Wilson Odero, Mark Stevenson, Elaine Wodzin.
Writer: Jeanne Breen.
Boxes: Joelle Sleiman (Box 3.1); Anesh Sukhai, Ashley van Niekerk (Box 3.2).
Chapter 4. Interventions
Chair of Technical Committee: Ian Roberts.
Members of Technical Committee: Anthony Bliss, Jeanne Breen, Marcel Haegi, Todd Litman, Jack McLean, Ted Miller, Charles Mock, Nicole Muhlrad, Francesca Racioppi, Ralf Risser, Geetam Tiwari, Radin Umar, Maria Vegega, Dean Wilkerson.
Writer: Jeanne Breen with contributions from David Sleet, Angela Seay.
Boxes: Ruth Shults, Dorothy Begg, Daniel Mayhew, Herb Simpson (Box 4.1); Jeanne Breen (Box 4.2); Frances Afukaar (Box 4.3); Jeanne Breen (Box 4.4); Mark Stevenson (Box 4.5); Olivier Duperrex (Box 4.6).
Chapter 5. Conclusions and recommendations
Chair of Technical Committee: Fred Wegman.
Members of Technical committee: Andrew Downing, Ben Eijbergen, Frank Haight, Olive Kobusingye, Brian O’Neill, Ian Scott, David Silcock, Rochelle Sobel, Eduardo Vazquez-Vela, Rick Waxweiler.
Writer: Margie Peden.
Boxes: Ian Roberts (Box 5.1); Roy Antonio Rojas Vargas (Box 5.2).
Statistical Annex
Maureen Cropper, Kara McGee, Amy Li, Elizabeth Kopits, Margie Peden, Niels Tomijima.
Peer reviewers
Julie Abraham, Frances Afukaar, Noble Appiah, Carlos Arreola-Risa, David Bishai, Christine Branche, Walter Buylaert, Witaya Chadbunchachai, Ann Dellinger, Jane Dion, Claude Dussault, Rune Elvik, Brendan Halleman, Alejandro Herrera, Ivan Hodac, Regina Karega, Arthur Kellermann, Martin Koubek, Jess Kraus, Larry Lonero, Mary McKay, Kate McMahon, Rose McMurray, Isabelle Mélèse, Heiner Monheim, Frederick Nafukho, Krishnan Rajam, Elihu Richter, Mark Rosenberg, Hans van Holst, Mathew Varghese, Maria Vegega, Philip Wambugu, Rick Waxweiler, Geert Wets, Paul White, John Whitelegg, Moira Winslow, Ingrida Zurlyte.
Additional contributors
Adielah Anderson, Abdulbari Bener, Anthony Bliss, Witaya Chadbunchachai, Carlos Dora, Marcel Dubouloz, Nelmarie du Toit, Randy Elder, Bill Frith, Sue Goldstein, Philip Graitcer, Marcel Haegi, Narelle Haworth, Christina Inclan, Arthur Kellerman, Rajam Krishnan, Risto Kumala, Larry Lonero, Stein Lundebye, Rick Martinez, Margaret McIntyre, Frederico Montero, Jim Nichols, Stephanie Pratt, Junaid Razzak, Donald Redelmeier, Richard Sattin, Ruth Shults, Rochelle Sobel, Grant Strachan, Leif Svanstrom, Tamitza Toroyan, Sebastian Van As, Hugh Waters, Wu Yuan.
Regional consultants
WHO African Region / Eastern Mediterranean Region
Hussain Abouzaid, Abdallah Assaedi, Sussan Bassiri, Abdhulbari Bener, Abdul Ghaffar, Mehdi Ghoya, Alaa Hamed, El-Sayed Hesham, Syed Jaffar Hussain, Mojahed Jameel, Tsegazeab Kebede, Meleckidzedeck Khayesi, Olive Kobusingye, Charlotte Ndiaye, Wilson Odero, Ian Roberts, Emmanuel Yoro Gouali.
WHO Region of the Americas
Julie Abraham, Anthony Bliss, Bryna Brennan, Alberto Concha-Eastman, Martha Hijar, Eva Jarawan, Larry Lonero, Kara McGee, Margie Peden, Deysi Rodriguez, Roy Antonio Rojas Vargas, Mark Rosenberg, Angela Seay, Richard Scurfield, Anamaria Testa Tambellini, Maria Vegega, Elisabeth Ward, Rick Waxweiler.
WHO South-East Asia Region / Western Pacific Region
Shanthi Ameratunga, Anthony Bliss, Li Dan, Sitaleki Finau, Gopalakrishna Gururaj, Ian Johnston, Rajam Krishnan, Robyn Norton, Munkdorjiin Otgon, Margie Peden, Chamaiparn Santikarn, Ian Scott, Gyanendra Sharma, Mark Stevenson, Madan Upadhyaya.
WHO European Region
Anthony Bliss, Piero Borgia, Jeanne Breen, Andrew Downing, Brigitte Lantz, Lucianne Licari, Margie Peden, Francesca Racioppi, Ian Roberts, Angela Seay, Laura Sminkey, Agis Tsouros, Jaroslav Volf, Ingrida Zurlyte.

Have been dismissed with a quick scan from an unqualified low level technician in an unrelated subject.

WHO stands for the "World Health Organisation" who may be heard saying when Safespeed was mentioned "who?"

Me unqualified? Your brush with ad hominem aside: let’s go with your assertion because it’s even better!
So far, I've run rings around SCP PR staff and their claims, that's not bad for an 'unqualified low level technician in an unrelated subject.'

The real issue here is how neither of your posts actually addressed mine and the factors I gave, I've not (yet) questioned what they've said in the report you linked; this is about our claims (your and mine), not theirs. A quick scan is all what was needed to show its irrelevance to be evident - you can prove me wrong (I did a text search for "displac", no hits for displace or displacement).

Your repeated evasions to simple requests and instead linking unrelated material, is highly disingenuous.

Again: why not just point to where they accounted for displacement and fatigue. The latter is mentioned, but not accounted for, so its not like it should be dismissed.
Where is your 50% claim within it?


Which is safer to drink, water or cyanide? Is your answer cyanide because less people are killed by it?

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

A trench across the road that at 30mph would be harmless but that at 70mph would divert your car into the oncoming traffic.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

You are not really trying DCB. How about this for a more "real life" scenario.
A fallen tree across the road in the dark which you cannot see until the kast minute. Now THAT would be a hazard that would cause you more problems at 70MPH than 30MPH.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Hmm .... lets see what a study be Philip Tetlock professor of organizational behavior at the Haas Business School at the University of California-Berkeley has to say about experts.

Tetlock signed up nearly 300 academics, economists, policymakers and journalists and mapped more than 82,000 forecasts against real-world outcomes, analyzing not just what the experts said but how they thought: how quickly they embraced contrary evidence, for example, or reacted when they were wrong. And wrong they usually were, barely beating out a random forecast generator.

"My research certainly prepared me for widespread forecasting failures. We found that our experts' predictions barely beat random guesses - the statistical equivalent of a dart-throwing chimp - and proved no better than predictions of reasonably well-read nonexperts. Ironically, the more famous the expert, the less accurate his or her predictions tended to be."

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)

The very best that all experts can expect, in whatever field, is that their predictions are proved wrong posthumously.
Unfortunately, given the rise in the amount of scientists, many are proven wrong well before the end of their lives.
In fact, the science is frequently wrong.
As an aside: If everyone travelled by public transport, and it had a 100% death-free record, the amount of deaths from contagious/infectious disease would rise to render the lack of deaths from accidents meaningless.
Swings and roundabouts.
Look on the positive aspect of speed cameras and safety partnerships: They provide jobs for those who would struggle otherwise.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

No it wouldn't. Most of the people who travel by public transport already foregather in large groups in overheated and badly ventilated venues such as workplaces and places of entertainment.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

The report also refer to TrL und the USA one I linked to which confirm 95% of accident are down to driver error und this form the bulk of the KSI as logically all of the 95% will involve more than one occupant in each car.. . just as the remaining 5% will have KSI in same proportions based on vehicle occupancy


We still have the data collation problem as Pennington und Mountain refererdd to in their papers .. plus the Lotto effect as concluded by Prof Rose Baker

Your list of names does not give qualifications or expertise in field.. but a quick shufty reveal that they are perhaps not as "expert" as you lead to believe

WHO make claims about a lot of things.. but whilst my company ist thankful for the extra business .. it not actually a drug which bring about immunity.. it just alleviate the effects of the lurgy in question

Nothing can be set in concrete .. und you not taake account of all the variables in your blanket claim that speed cams solve everything. You make a claim that they cop seat belt offences.. handy phone offences... but ist all hit und miss chance really. A real cop can pull.., have word immediately. Lesson learned on the spot und not 14 day later ..but then this does not happen does it Greenshed.

If it did .. I would read of this in the paper as you would be crowing about it .. jumping in self praise over it all.. leaping und bounding in gay abandon over it all.

But you are not.. Because it does not happen. You would be milking such success und licking the cream off the gold top full bodied milk on that.

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

You do talk some s****, [edited for language by Admin] none more so that the above. I have made no such claim.

You have some fantastic imagination which is most probably drug-fuelled. I can't think of any other reason how you come to some of your conclusions, misinterpretation and childish crap.

At least you have conceded my point and contradicted this statement of yours..


If the hazard increases with increasing speed then in that given twenty miles of road the amount of hazard is not constant. QED

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Mr Moderator sir!! The tone and content of Greenshed's posts are becoming increasingly strident, unpleasant and ad hominen. Please warn him.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

WHy thank you dcb! You saved me a post there.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Und dcb .. Merci vilmal




You claimed about 4 pages ago und once in the seat belt thread we post up for debate that your speed cameras cop those not wearing seat belts und on handy phones.


We have not read any positive PR claims in any one news paper - national or local. If you had nabbed someone like this.. you would have milked it in the press as a positive.


You did make that comment. I will track the link later in case you need a remind?


By the way ,, I may research drugs .. und by doing so I perhaps save a lot more lives than a speed camera. I certainly hope my work does that . I do not appreciate being called a drug addict for no reason other than pointing out the flaws in your argument.


OK .. so you may not like me being blunt in noting a lot of user accounts post in the same manner ., und post the same "logic" in the same style. It seem very odd und I remark on the oddness ..I personally find it childish und absurd that you need to do so... und the IP address apparently ist a big give away


I remarked on the list of names .. being a list of names. If you look up these names .. you find they are not exactly experts on roads und driving...but conclude all the same that the data collated still does not provide sufficient data nor consistency in data collation to draw full conclusions - especially when many an accident will be unique to its own set of road conditions und folk involved by tragic fate.

Remarking on this does not give you any right to make ad hominem attack und by doing so . you lose credibility as well as argument

You should chill out a lot more. I could recommend essence of cat nip .., submarinated in a tissane brew of course. . . but maybe all you need ist Milk of Magnesia to cure your dyspepsia (which I should spell as dis-pepsia" to complete a little playfulness in words here )

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Greenshed,

Please check your PM inbox.

The same "hazards" will be present,it's just how you cope with them that affects the outcome. Some hazards can be steered around, such as large potholes, others have to be slowed down for such as cyclists, fallen trees etc. You could also say that if you covered a two mile stretch of road with say a pedestrian or animal crossing it on average once every five seconds then by covering the same stretch of road in half the time (twice as fast) you would only encounter half the crossing "hazards". Good driving is all about matching your driving speed to the hazards that may be encountered , nothing on a speed limit sign will compensate for driver awareness.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Really ?
In spite of legislation that guarantees "adequate ventilation" ?
And specifies the quantity of same (air changes per hour) and also specifies the amount of floor space for each person ?
Not to mention local authorities inspections of places of entertainment to check same....and the smoking ban...
Yes, It would result in more deaths from disease.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing