Safe Speed Forums

This is relevant Mr Smith. And I don’t understand why you feel this is a personal attack. Read the way people including yourself have a go at Basingwerk and myself. These are personal attacks based on nothing more than difference of belief. Everyone on this forum is (or should be) answerable to the road safety issues they have raised.
Problem is it’s at the root of your exclusivist argument. You believe you could drive safely at 150mph on a road in your area. Yet you will not say whether this is the 85th/90th percentile speed for that road.
Surely people should not exceed the 85th or 90th percentile speed. But you condone it.


I can only presume that you are fully aware that 150mph is so far off anyone’s 90th percentile scale, maybe 100kms higher, that your position on the graph (perhaps 50 times more dangerous than 90th percentile) would ridicule your own safe speed stance. That might be why you don’t wish to answer the question.
You can’t have it all ways Mr Smith.

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.

Pete317 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:10 pm


Is there any need to argue the extremes?

2mph over limit gets points and a fine and a criminal record (32…. 42…. 72…..Does that happen?)
Brutal beating to death of defenceless old ladies – off they go with a ticking off!

Doesn’t add any credibility to your argument.


Yes partially. Personal and intellectual weakness and deprived social circumstance can lead to craving in many youngsters – even pre teens. They do not and often never will have the adult sentience to weigh up the consequences of their actions at those impressionable ages, and that craving whether for affection or other standards most of us accept for granted can be easily catered for by drug abuse. From then on it is a spiral of decline.
Some open mindedness and a search for understanding may help rather than ghetto condemnation.

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.

Pete317 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:17 pm


Did I?

85th percentile speeds have been used as a gauge for speed limits.
Some research must have been completed substantiating the above chart, but if the research is as accurate as the y axis then it’s flawed.

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.

This sounds awfully like basigwerk

In Gear Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:27 am

S'pose due care / con & use would feature in most of those 'discretionary' factors.
If you give someone a ticket at 42 and your mate doesn’t at 44 for same set of circs. that’s a bit of a discretion lottery. Cameras don’t discriminate.
The standards around each county are uniform, and pretty well known.

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.

My police mate reckons that a criminal record for a speeding ticket is pants. He says you get a CRO number and listing for criminal records. You don’t get that for speeding. He said it doesn’t even go on a local intelligence database unless you’re disqualified.
What criminal database do you stick them on, In Gear?

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.

Tried it, doesn’t work!

Same time exposed, higher closing speeds, more danger.

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.

If it goes to court, you get a criminal record. If you agree to pay the brib.. sorry, fixed penalty, it doesn't count as a criminal record.

Pete, do you really believe you asked those questions?

Do you sense some intolerance in your attitude to other motorists– legal attentive motorists?

I do.

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.

Durrum eh! Good safe place to drive eh!

Not many cameras in that county!

Intelligent road policing!




Lets see then!
If you compare an average of the last 2 years fatalities in Durham with an average of the first 4 camera years 93 to 96, Durham has reduced fatalities by 2.3% - impressive eh, must be that acid tongue and wit, In Gear.

Figures speak for themselves.

BUT

National reduction over the same period – 5.6%.!!!

Time you told chiefy to get more cameras, In Gear. They seem to work elsewhere. Don’t get Gatso though, they’re crap.

Praps the figures in Durham are better than most other counties.

There must be something to have a song and dance about.

What about relative to population

Durham fatalities per 100000 population……………8.4
National fatalities per 100000 population …………..5.8!!!!

Must be geographical area.

Durham fatalities per 1000km2………………… 18.6
National fatalities per 1000km2………………... 14.4!!!!


Oh dear, In Gear, please tell me how your wicked acid wit and repartee and Mr Garbled’s anti camera stance is saving lives.

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.

Is this a concerned response from Mr Smith, now realising that there is a general consensus among contributors that many social values have eroded in the last 10 – 15 years which have had a detrimental effect on driving attitudes.
In Gear suggests an increase in boy racers.
Gatsobait blames mobile phones and drug driving.
Oscar recognises the boy racer explosion.
Basingwerk and Rigpig have voiced exactly the same concerns
I'd agree with them all.

It is a generally held view.

So why would the ‘voice of reason’ be motivated to try to change our view on this.
I wonder why?



It is completely ignored in his trendy analysis, the basis for his onslaught on speed cameras. (The divergence of red line from yellow is down to speed cameras - so the theory goes.)

And it needs to be ignored to show 7000 fatalities caused by cameras!

Quality Safespeed analysis eh!

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.

My, soren, you're bitter AND twisted!!!

Sounds like you are one of the "good old days" brigade.

I have been driving for 27 years. This year I will have driven my one millionth mile so I think I have seen just about everything there is to see on the road. I have attended several crashes including those involving fatalaties. I have seen the best and the worst kinds of driving. I now drive/ride about 55,000miles per year in the UK, Europe and the USA

I passed my bike test about 4 years ago which I found to be very imformative. Being a biker gives you a new perspective on road safety.

I do not agree with the comments on driving attitudes. That is a cop out. My daughter is taking her test now at the age of 17 and her atitude and views on driving and road safety are exactly the same as mine were when I took my first test at the age of 17.

Whatever the reason is don't try and blame "society" or "attitudes" if you do then you are blaming yourself because we are the society.

I do admit we are living in a blame culture. That I do not subscribe to.

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills

Sorry to contradict you Oh My Sorry One ...but standards and tolerances on the scams do differ.

Lancs - case in point. We know about Lancs - compare our stats to them becasue the county is similar to ours in many respects. We also use S Wales and Humberside as models for comparison as they are similar.

Lancs - your licence is seriously "at risk here" They uses to prosecute at 33 mph to get 33-35 mph on a Speed course. That we do know and have PROOF of .... they have since revised this to stern letter to cut off at an 10% plus 2 across the range and invite to their Speed Course to a cut off of 10% plus 4 across the range of speeds. This is not nationwide. Other places still only offer to 35mph and others - including Wales do not offer at all - but issue NIPs at 33-37 mph dependent on policy.

So NO! --- UNIFORM is it! And YES - THE SCAMS DO THEN DISCRIMINATE ACTUALLY!

More of a discretion lottery than me issuing NIP at 42 mph in a 40 and my pal on another street at 44 mph. Rule of thumb - we give 10% plus 4 here. Incidentally - we do liaise on policy - and are trained to give same advice and take same stock of potential situation to be fair to all.

And for the record - this Force has been purging the area of boy racers , drunks, drugged and defectives - result - hundreds of truly dangerous scrotes have been removed from YOUR roads!

Damned site more than your scams - Oh and incidentally - we have issued Fixed Penalties - but each time they have been issued - person knows exactly WHY it was done! We are finding we are getting safer roads as a result of this - is LanCASH£re? NOPE! Wales? Er - My cousin lives there and is a doctor there - and says NOT!

Notts? Lincs? Cambs? TVP? NOPE!

Durham ?- YEP!

I rests me case!

Goes to court - they get criminal record as Zamzara correctly says.

We also keep data base up here of Fixed Penalties issued. DVLA keeps similar data base. Lancs keeps records as well because of the Speed Course.

But a growing number of job applications are asking for this data - even though the job does not involve driving. Thus - it can be perceived as some kind of vetting process... and it is thus unfair.

It is also worded as "conviction" on these forms - my girl has Saturday job in well known High street store. It was on the application form! Another girl in her class who got pinged by one of my lads on A167 and got Fixed penalty did not get a job at this store - yet qualifications background and personality are similar - apart from fact the other girl's driving licence has three bruises on it and my daughter's has nothing.

Not giving away my rank - but bet your mate is a pretzel rooky in a Panda!

:? You've misunderstood the post in which I mentioned mobiles and drug driving. I was commenting on an e-mail from THINK! in which they said that their advertising campaigns include mobile phone use and drug driving. My point was only that I have never seen any THINK! adverts relating to either of these. I'm not wild about either, but you make it sound like I blame them to the exclusion of the vast number of other forms of dangerous behaviour on our roads. A bit like the way the scamerati blame speed.

Like the sig by the way. You're not prejudiced against speed are you?

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

See above post - I have personally removed 100s of dangerous twits in last couple of months.

Not many camera?

Come up here then - dare you to drive along A167, (Tollhouse road, North Road, North Lodge, (Chester-le-Street) A 690, A67, B6288, C145, C12, B6282, B6280, , B 6168, A1086 , C182 amongst others where we are out in force with LTI 2020s!

That does not count the lads and lasses out in trafpol patrols and pandas!


And = we do have LESS carnage than elsewhere!



Why do you NOT compare the average with the average performance of the last two years under the prats themsleves?

Oh Sorry - forgot - won't fit will it!

We have death rates increasing in Lancs and Wales and Cambs - have brother in Met - and accessto his figures and brother with GMP and access to his figures, plus cousin in A&E London and others with access to A&E figures in North Wales and Cambs - not a pretty story AT ALL!


and our own Mad Doc will no doubt set you straight about his patch!
Figures speak for themselves.



We find our LTI 2020s, vascars and in car vids more than adequate



As a matter of fact Sorry One - we have maintained a steady decline year on year. Third less die per capita on our roads than Lancs. S Wales and Humerside - and we compare ourselves to these forces because geography, manpower and county layout are not too dissimilar. This has remained static - and has been fully audited by the Audit Commission, and our returns comply accurately with all criteria.

Of course - it would help if you used only RTC figures instead of the total of deaths from everything!

Lot of stress amongst our farmers! Farming accidents... And we have a drug problem - and boy racers from neighbouring counties and a serious recent problem developing in one little area with born again bikers which we are leaning on hard!

And my "chiefy" as you call him does bot babble or gabble r garbele or warble - but speaks volumes o f common senseand actualy LEADS his force! OH - and he dissapproves of hard drugs too! Lik he likes locking barns, dealers, and pushers up in Durham jail and if we had a say in it - we would forget where we placed the key!

Unlike Dicky - who thinks we should all pay for them to receive this drug on the NHS!

So who is the better CC then? I know which one I'd rather work for!

Christ I think we all need to accept that some roads have, the wrong speed limits, the right speed limits, politically enforced speed limits, un-politically enforced speed limits, dangerous roads, safe roads.

There is a main road past my town (40 limit) where no matter the weather (usually drizzle) I always seem to be doing 35MPH yet there is back roads with 60MPH limits where I would hardly exceed 35MPH let alone 25MPH on a dry clear day.

Motorways where if I do 70MPH I seem to be holding the traffic up.

It is blindingly obvious that speed limits cannot be fixed yet what could be done to make them variable?

I think the first step is these LED type street signs which could also have sensors detecting the conditions and flow of traffic and if any accidents have happened ahead etc etc.

I know the traffic police never stopped you unless you were taking the piss, such as 40 in a 30 at a wet and busy time of day not 36 at 2AM in the morning!

road safety is FATALLY flawed now but with the best intentions.

Andrew

In the USA they have 35 limits in most built up areas. When there are school children present (about 2 hours of the day in term time) they have additional 20mph signes that flash during enforcment times

This is a very sensible way of setting seed limits at critical times.

In addition it is illegal to over take a school bus that is picking up or dropping off children...another good law.

In these days of LED technology it would be simple (though expensive) to have displays instead of signes. Like smaller versions of those on the M25

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills

Hmm!

Perceived "glamour" of drug - celebs "take it" and thus "it must be OK and I want to be like them!" -- could be part of it....

Club life - easy to get lured into "trying it out" there as well - and with ecstasy, coke, crack, speed - immediate "hook" more or less.....and again the perceived glamour and heightened buzz of the night out ....

Certain amount of "grooming" by dealers and pushers too. Have 4 year old foster child - born an addict. Mother long dead...(She was kid who was "groomed by a pimp") .and like the other child who came to us on foster after being subjected to much abusive behaviour - long term wardship with us...Behaviourwise - let us just say - we had our hands well and truly full - but getting there!


Loat of HIV patients within care of my department - ex addicts, dirty syringes .... Surprising number of these from normal middle/upper middle class homes too. Good educational backgrounds ..... So "social deprivation" is not reason. And the affection and family support are there as well! Perhaps long hours culture is to blame .....not enough time spent with the kids in some cases .

I have to work long hours - and so does my wife - when not pregnant!!! She is on maternity leave now on the countdown ......

But even so - we insist on family meals at table, and spend a significant amount of time with our kids, keeping watchful eye on what they get up to - and yes - I expect them to sass back at me and test me - that is part of growing up!

But understanding these people is one thing - tackling the problem and educating them to avoid the spiral of decline is what we should be doing!

And if they appear in court as result of committing a crime to feed the habit - perhaps instead of "diddums - they are socially deprived and I will let them off!" - we should be sentencing - not to jail or juvenile detention centre - but to a specific rehab centre which deprives of freedom - but also weans them off the drug. Bit like the anorexic set-ups (which is another "wannabe like overpaid and definitely unsexy stick insect!" syndrome)