Safe Speed Forums

Where's the logic in that statement. No -one I know thought poll tax was a good thing>

just because you campaign against something does mean to say that you are doing it for financial benefit.

Your arguments over poll tax are as flawed as your aguments over speed cameras. I bet you think everyone who is against speed cameras are boy racers and lawbreakers.....wrong again!!!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Perhaps that is the only reason he can think of for campaigning. Personally, I campaigned against that tax because it was so regressive and unjust. There has to be something massively wrong with a tax that can be levied at over 100% of income.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

A levy on income collected by central gov would put massive amounts of power into the hands of that government.
A local income tax, collected locally, would be unpopular to many and spark the same disorder that the poll tax did.
It would also mean that those with large incomes, who usually pay less tax than those with low incomes due to a variety of tax avoidance ruses, would avoid paying large council-income-taxes.
I fail to see your point. You own property, which is going to increase in value, and you pay tax on the valuation.
Others do not own property, they rent, and they pay the same tax on the valuation of someone elses property ?
What is your point ?

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Says the guy that power slides round corners on the public highway.

There is already massive power in the hands of the Government that is what they are elected for; they also have the ultimate say on how much can be raised in local taxes, the power you fear is already invested in the Government; ask any councillor about "capping."

A local income tax collected locally is fair and popular where it is used, the USA for instance. Last time I was there I asked someone about it and he said it is seen as fair because when he visits another area and has to pay for something the local taxation is allowing him to pay towards the services he uses while visiting, not only that it also means he pays more for the services in his own area that he uses the most as well as being assisted by visitors to his area. I say the "disorder" you predict is going to come from those who at present do not contribute, just as it did with the Poll Tax. Local taxation is operated in a large number of countries and seems to be successful where it is.

Those with large incomes do have ways of avoiding taxation, it is difficult to do so in a local taxation scenario though as there are few if any exemptions from it as there are with other taxes. Larger pockets - larger purchases - larger contribution.

I and other home owners and tenants pay taxes on the value of the property to provide services for all yet "all" do not contribute to those services while they enjoy them; that is my point, I see it as quite easy to comprehend. It would be more palatable for me to open my window and throw £20 notes out than to have to pay monthly to a council to provide services to the 66% of adults and their families within the county I live in who do not contribute to its services, not to mention the millions of visitors who come and visit and take the advantage for nothing. Well they spend money in businesses but why should they be burdened in an unrepresentative way in taxation.

To those who say I support the Poll Tax as a suitable alternative you perhaps missed the significance or my referring to it as "half-arsed."

You can't expect him to remember that it's 2 pages back!

I think I'rd rather watch grass grow! As one spouts the party line .. another spouts his opinion and gets the party line as a reply instead of something more constructive.

I am getting a bit tired of reading the same old stuff over and over .. and why I am posting less and less now.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I did try and explain to you two "inexperienced " drivers the meaning of what I do to assist my cornering back on the "brainstorming" thread, you either ignored it or failed to understand it but if you were to try and improve your own driving you would find that these sort of manouvers as well as handbrake turns do have their uses in normal driving and are not just the antics of joyriders and boyracers...live a little and learn a lot....

Fortunately, some of us have moved on and learnt more since we were 17 and just learning to drive.

"66% of adults and their families within the county I live in who do not contribute to its services"

Again another inflated remark which is very likely not to be true ...are you sure you don't work for a SCP?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

To whom and to what party are you referring?

To read Safespeed members slapping each other on the back post-after-post must get a bit boring I would say; surely you must be more stimulated when a challenge is laid down or when your self-perpetuating legends are broken when substance beyond "reasoned argument" is requested, especially when the call is often made for proof to those who go against the established members.

I must admit to being just as peeved when the safespeed members "spouts the party line .. another spouts his opinion and gets the party line as a reply instead of something more constructive," perhaps that is what you are refering to.

Ok here's a challenge for you then ...

Prove your earlier statement that mean speeds on rural roads are often 70MPH or more.
And
Prove that 66% of adult residents AND their families are not paying council tax in your area.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Not sure what you mean by inexperienced but I have driven for 38 years now and done the executive company car routine of 40 to 50k per year. Been insructed for 4 years by a police class one driver etc etc.

So far I have not required the use of a "power slide" to "assist my cornering" or employed a "handbrake turn" in my normal driving; I can't imagine the scenario in which you would need these techniques.

If my remarks are "very likely to be untrue" then show why they are. Perhaps try to look at the adult population count in your county then look up the number of households contributing council tax. Put the household cotributors over the total number of adults and see the percentage contributors.
Alternately you could employ the safespeed method and stick your thumb in the air and quote it as authority.

Maths obviously isn't your strong point has you have proven before so I'll help you here.
My council has a population of 150,000(approx) if we assume that 90,000 are adult (makes the next bit easier for you) that means by your reckoning 60,000 adults AND their families aren't paying council tax....I wonder where our council gets it's money for all our silly speed limit changes from???

If you were in full time education in the early nineties, how old does that make you?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Groan! you are hard work.

90,000 adults in 30,000 households means that 60,000 adults are not paying council tax unless all adults in the households are sharing it; say in a shared flat.

You will find that businesses will contribute a significant amount of cash to the council and the government subsidise councils from central funds. If you need any further lessons in this just look it up on Google and get someone to explain all of the words to you.

As I understand it, there isn't an age limit or time limit on full time education; perhaps if you had received any you would have known that.

Your childish insults for your lack of being able to explain yourself in plain english is very tedious.
Perhaps if you have done 38 years motoring which I VERY much doubt, you would have learnt something if you had driven proper roads and not motorways.

Anyway as we are not going to get any sense from you about your assumption that we have 60,000 adults AND their families not paying council tax in my area ( a fact that I can check on monday) perhaps you can fulfil the other part of your challenge and prove that mean speeds on rural roads are often 70MPH?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

We actually have 65,000 dwellings in the Telford and Wrekin borough which sort of shoots your theory down a litlle when you are basing evrything on 30,000 dwellings.....ooops!!!!

As I said earlier, maths and the truth/facts aren't exactly your strong points are they Greenshed?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I don't think my response to your accusations on my maths skills or age are childish at all, merely a retort to unjustified abuse from your good self. My ritten Englund isn't half bad either so no mileage for you there.

If you had said you had driven for 38 years I would have accepted it; why wouldn't I?

I wouldn't like to guess your age and wouldn't presume your reasoning indicated any such age; I am merely responding to the posts you submit. I could hazard a guess at your age from the logic and comprehension you display however my assessment may offend.

You set a challenge regarding the average speed of roads never being above the speed limit some days ago; you followed this up with some tables from Cheshire, as I recall; these were supplied by you to bear out your theory but sadly for you I showed that on 14 occasions the average speed was indeed above the speed limit for the road. You then changed the challenge to rural roads being an average of 70 mph. It doesn't matter where you move the goal posts to you keep scoring in the wrong end. As I said some time ago I had data that showed this very thing but I no longer have access to that data to show you. Your theory comes from part-reading of information published for the public; information which I used to show you were wrong; mine comes from real data I no longer have access to. Now I used that data in a practical application on the roads and as such it is likely that is perhaps more authorative than having a go at some analysis by looking at one or 2 figures in a few hundred and coming up with the theory of 2+2+5 as you did.

You are a long way from being someone who can lay down challenges that will get a response from me until you have a look around yourself and come up with something more credible that the rambling conjecture of Master graball!


Nice try though; keep it up and I'll get you an ice cream.

My figures are examples only; I have no desire to work out anything relating to Telford other than when the next train out would be if I was unfortunate enough to find myself there.

aaahem....read the above post...
You stated that mean speeds on rural roads (60MPH) were often 70MPH NOT me...

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

But my figures bring your percentages down to approx 33%, HALF what you claim....wrong AGAIN...you MUST be feeling foolish by now?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Not at all as you said above you have no idea of how many adults there are in the county; you were going to find out next week as I recall. You figures are therefore bollix.
My figures were, as I said, an example and had no basis in fact. Carry on and find out the figures for good old Telford and report them; then do all of the rest of the boroughs and let us know what the figure is rather than basing everything on what you know (or don't know as you seem to prefer).

I'm not sure what you are getting out of trying to score points at every post but it isn't exactly doing you a lot of good.