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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:22 
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Quote:

GreenShed
3. Speed limits are generally set correctly within the confines of the speed limit values allowed. Why then are they being reduced? Well for a start there is a problem with them being observed. Set a 60 mph limit and see the average or 85th percentile at 70 mph, set the same road to 50 mph speed limit and see that drop into the 50's or low 60's job done.

Hope that helps.


Just in case you had forgotten exactly what you are supposed to be proving in this challenge... ;-)

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:24 
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GreenShed on Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:20 am

graball wrote:But my figure bring your percentages down to approx 33%, HALF what you claim....wrong AGAIN...you MUST be feeling foolish by now?


Not at all as you said above you have no idea of how many adults there are in the county; you were going to find out next week as I recall. You figures are therefore bollix.
My figures were, as I said, an example and had no basis in fact. Carry on and find out the figures for good old Telford and report them; then do all of the rest of the boroughs and let us know what the figure is rather than basing everything on what you know (or don't know as you seem to prefer).

I'm not sure what you are getting out of trying to score points at every post but it isn't exactly doing you a lot of good.


Well actually, no, I DIDNT say that I didn't know the population, it's approx 150,00 with 65,000 dwellings so how are you going to twist those figure to try and make sense??

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:28 
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I'm actually more than a little concerned, that someone who has such a lacking in basic maths or facts, might have a job involving road safety and casualty figures.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:30 
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graball wrote:
Quote:
GreenShed on Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:20 am

graball wrote:But my figure bring your percentages down to approx 33%, HALF what you claim....wrong AGAIN...you MUST be feeling foolish by now?


Not at all as you said above you have no idea of how many adults there are in the county; you were going to find out next week as I recall. You figures are therefore bollix.
My figures were, as I said, an example and had no basis in fact. Carry on and find out the figures for good old Telford and report them; then do all of the rest of the boroughs and let us know what the figure is rather than basing everything on what you know (or don't know as you seem to prefer).

I'm not sure what you are getting out of trying to score points at every post but it isn't exactly doing you a lot of good.


Well actually, no, I DIDNT say that I didn't know the population, it's approx 150,00 with 65,000 dwellings so how are you going to twist those figure to try and make sense??

F#*k me! Population/Adults/Households/Council Tax Payers

Do you know all of these figures? The answer is NO, you do not.

Now F#*k off and get them, do the sums and come back and we'll talk.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:32 
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graball wrote:
I'm actually more than a little concerned, that someone who has such a lacking in basic maths or facts, might have a job involving road safety and casualty figures.

YOUR concern is of little consequence my friend...thank goodness!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:33 
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FACTS...
POPULATION 150,000
Dwellings 65,000

ANSWERS PLEASE?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:34 
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Thank goodness for you maybe and thank goodness you are not employed round here but one day someone will tumble to you!!!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:35 
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graball wrote:
FACTS...
POPULATION 150,000
Dwellings 65,000

ANSWERS PLEASE?

POPULATION 150,000...........Of which how many are adults? How many are paying council tax? Do you see where I am going with this?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:35 
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Don't forget, it's not just me and you reading this ...;-)

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:36 
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graball wrote:
Thank goodness for you maybe and thank goodness you are not employed round here but one day someone will tumble to you!!!

...and it is unlikely to be you I would be prepared to say.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:37 
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We've assumed that in a population of 150,000 approx 90,000 would be adults (mainly to help your poor maths) but feel free to make your own assumptions but you aint gonna get 66% by any twist or turn,

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:42 
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Time for bed me thinks...they say it is better to quit while you are ahead but I think it will be a long time before you have any chance of getting ahead in this game ...;-)

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 02:43 
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graball wrote:
We've assumed that in a population of 150,000 approx 90,000 would be adults (mainly to help your poor maths) but feel free to make your own assumptions but you aint gonna get 66% by any twist or turn,

This is a perfect illustration of your trouble in this; when did "we" assume anything of the sort, you did that.

Now if it was up to me I will assume that in a population of 150,000 that there are say, 60,000 adults; why not? Why not 120,000 adults? How about 117, 521?

We can assume what we like to and show just exactly what we want; what is a fact though is that there are a large number of the adults in that population that are not paying any council tax; what that is I do not know and at this time neither do you.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 05:14 
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Please refrain from the personal attacks / slanders, this tread is entering into.

This is interesting but is entering an off topic nature, although I can see it has stemmed from the costs to Councils issues, relating to enforcement funds.

And on that score the Councils receive money back from various sources. Councils declaring as they used to that road fund license will go to the roads and then it does so less and less, will of course have the public upset - of course it will, because the relationship and honesty is broken. The more the Council uses the money for other issues the more annoyed the public become and find the costs imposed upon them excessive.

Whatever we might personally think, the Councils will continue to over-charge for services, and this Country is one that will 'carry' sectors of society, until the voted in MP's change the rules.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 09:27 
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[quote="GreenShed"]90,000 adults in 30,000 households means that 60,000 adults are not paying council tax unless all adults in the households are sharing it; say in a shared flat.[quote]

Everyone who lives in property where council tax is paid contribute to that tax, even children. Even if they don't put their hands in their pockets they forgo whatever pleasures the council tax money could buy if it didn't go to the council.


You will remember that the council tax for a single occupancy home is less than that for multiple occupancy home so the fact that there are two people in a house does not mean that one of them is not paying the tax.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:21 
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graball wrote:
Quote:

GreenShed
3. Speed limits are generally set correctly within the confines of the speed limit values allowed. Why then are they being reduced? Well for a start there is a problem with them being observed. Set a 60 mph limit and see the average or 85th percentile at 70 mph, set the same road to 50 mph speed limit and see that drop into the 50's or low 60's job done.

Hope that helps.


Just in case you had forgotten exactly what you are supposed to be proving in this challenge... ;-)


As yes, now you mention it, I don't think I ever got an answer to my last question on this Grenshed!

If the purpose, as you seem to be suggesting, of lowering a 60 limit to a 50 is to make people do no more than 60, why does my local SCP prosecute at 57 and above?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 14:59 
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Not really reading Greenshed's essays, I missed the following:

Quote:
Why then are they being reduced? Well for a start there is a problem with them being observed.


So in Safety Camera World, reducing a frequently transgressed limit will increase compliance?

Revenue, perhaps, but not compliance.

For myself, I'm far more likely to strictly obey a sensibly-set limit than a cynical money maker.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 19:23 
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Greenshed,

Did you manage to find/deduce the data to justify your statement of the contribution from motorists paling into insignificance? It’s funny how you’ve been involved in several pages of debate resulting from it, without actually acknowledging that simple, fundamental and pertinent question.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 20:57 
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Big Tone wrote:
I don’t know if you have ever been abroad, but let’s say you are in France on a dry day. Do you travel at the legal 85mph, like everyone else, or do you never go more than 70mph because that is our definition of a safe maximum limit for exactly the same type of road?


I'd drive to the limit, and often do on all manner of roads (I've driven through France on a number of occasions).

I'd not have much of a problem with some motorways in the UK going up to 80 as long as any trial was properly monitored. For some an 80 limit would mean let's do 95-100, hence creating quite a large speed differential alongside law abiding drivers, so I figure it would be up to the those folks as to whether or not it was successful.

I'd be happy if the 80 limits we're introduced and enforced with average speed camaras.

Again, I'm not really that bothered about motorways in the grand scheme of things, there are no pedestrians or cyclists on them (generally), although i do take issue with the absolute loons including those that think it's acceptable to go at 85-90 down the outside of queuing traffic etc...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 21:15 
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weepej wrote:
I'd not have much of a problem with some motorways in the UK going up to 80 as long as any trial was properly monitored. For some an 80 limit would mean let's do 95-100, hence creating quite a large speed differential alongside law abiding drivers, so I figure it would be up to the those folks as to whether or not it was successful.

When you were driving around France, did you get a chance to see how they did it in Germany?

weepej wrote:
I'd be happy if the 80 limits we're introduced and enforced with average speed camaras.

Again, I'm not really that bothered about motorways in the grand scheme of things, there are no pedestrians or cyclists on them (generally), although i do take issue with the absolute loons including those that think it's acceptable to go at 85-90 down the outside of queuing traffic etc...

Assuming motorways were as you described (the limit was set to 80mph), would average speed cams stop these loons?
Does our call for more trafpol suddenly make sense?

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