Safe Speed Forums

Weepej,

Why can't you see that taking all reasonable steps to be seen and safe is a good idea? Maximising safety and managing risk is everyone's responsibility - not just that of drivers. Using this logic, perhaps the law requiring rubbish skips in the road to be lit should be repealed.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

It IS a good idea to wear high viz, but only because there are some right nutters out there!

How can cycling the wrong way on a carriageway, into oncoming traffic, especially when there is no warning of it, ever be safe? <boggle>
(remember, to remain in context, we're talking about safely breaking the law, not adhering to a relaxed one 'as proposed').

While we’re on the subject of relaxing laws to appease the many who already ignore it – I’m sure you can see it coming
...

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

No mention of law abiding cyclists was made, in fact, the insinuation is often that no "cyclists" are law abiding (whatever a cyclist is).

Lord, no! I mean, some motorists do those things, and some can and even do drive with care and courtesy. They're not all the same you know, unlike those pesky cyclists.

No mention of cyclists being a "nuisance" was made.


Now that's rubbish. I think it is now evident where the prejudice truly is.



Headlights do well to illuminate the way ahead, but do little for the sides, where others can suddenly veer into the path of the car, like unlit road users.
What about drivers who are pulling out of drives? Or junctions?

Remember, not all road users have lights to illuminate their way ahead.




I never ride without lights (and I live in London FFS).
Riding without lights on an unlit road (and there are many of them), relying solely on the moon for illumination, especially in England where clouds (let alone the climate) are very unpredictable, is absolute madness.
What about avoiding other cyclists? What about simply seeing where you’re going? What about avoiding pedestrians? What about yourself visible to pedestrians who cross the road?
What about cycling along a pavement without lights?
No, this is just silly!

I have to say I’m quite surprised at you with this one, especially as you’re in favour of fairly strict liability.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

An unlit cyclist in the dark receiving fatal injuries will be awarded with the vast majority of the contribution to the circumstances of his/her death. That will be the same whether the cyclist believe it to be safe or otherwise. See my post http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=210034#p210034above about looking a bit stupid when gambling on the road.

It is as safe as exceeding the speed limit when there is no warning of traffic coming into the distance in which you can see to stop I would venture.

So what you’re really saying is:
cycling the wrong way on a carriageway, into oncoming traffic (no dedicated cycle lane), especially when there is no warning of it, is equally dangerous as driving so fast (exceeding or within the limit) that one cannot stop in the distance one can expect to be clear? ?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Well, quite, I'm seriously not suggesting people go out on their cycles dressed in black with no lights, that would be silly, there are some right nutters out there.

And here

Please understand me.
Wearing hi-viz is better than riding with the silly flashing LED lights they have now.
With no lights, but with hi-viz, the a cyclist is visible for hundreds of metres.
With no lights and no hi-viz they are highly un-visible.
You can say: "if they are driving at a speed for the distance they can see" for the rest of time, it is no good if you are warming a slab of marble up is it ?
Being safe involves actively assessing the risk/s attached to the task you are doing: cycle at night and even a rudimentary RA should indicate you need illumination.
Oh, and cycles are legally required to have reflectors as well: Hi-viz.



http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4071

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

No, which is why it's a good idea to make sure you can be easily seen, not everybody is looking as hard as they should be!

And not everyone can see those who don't make an effort to be visible, even if they look hard (explained in an earlier post); that's why making yourself visible is a must. To do otherwise is 'a matter of time' and a needless waste.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Only if they are on the road in the hours of darkness. Unlike a motor car a cycle id not required to have working lights fitted at all times

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

To come back to a couple of thing on page one.


EU can have such system because the carriageway in the towns are generally wider. The narrow ginnels would not have been suitable for cars und thus pedestrianised with signs allowing cycles.


There are signs in some pedestrian areas which forbid cycling (pedestrian zone in Basel/Luzern/Hameln/Colmar//Dinan (but them cobbles are anyway... ) to name a scant few which may be known as "jolly right nice to visit on holidays" und which carry on spot fine if copped doing so. Unlike UK - they do have those really strange characters in police uniforms prowling around ...

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WARNING ..a slight off topic drift
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Also I think perhaps the culture has always been different..., as we use the full range of transport und the public transport ist very good .. but it ist also subsidised by tax payers who do not begrudge as they do get such good services overall in return. UK? You pay the tax.. the MP squanders on "cut glass grapefruit dishes with matching doo-dahs" - even to claiming his partner's "tampax und femfresh" on expenses in one case I think this off topic remark relating to our ragin' rants over it all at the time sort of underpins the cultural differences between UK islanders und the continentals It ist not a "racist remark .. but a perhaps over-wry observation on the cultural differences " UK MPS are paid more than even those in USA .. Blair reportedly earned more than Clinton und Bush per the press reports.

The ranty remarks ist related to topic as our tax does not seem to pay for what we really need here .decent public transport und better road engineering.
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BACK to topic proper ..

Comment on insurance etc.


Any cyclist worth his cadence power would insure bicycle on home insurance - which should cover damage caused by them to third party's belongings ...und safefuard against potential injury he or she cause to self und others within scope of health assurance scheme.

To me that would be common sense und many a European cyclist does this.



Hi-viz?

Europe already made hi-viz jacket to be carried by law within car's saloon und occupants must wear these if they break down.

Moves are afoot to make this compulsory attire for their cyclists BOF ALORS

Check out Google..'tis amazin' what gurgles up! Type in key words such as velo ..veston.. und Huppulah!








I think Bolton became one-way per family in that area. I think cars go around the town one way und buses und cyclists are supposed to go around in the opposite direction. Given they spent a fortune on all of this und signs.. I cannot see Bolton Council spending a further fortune on various signs.


Do cyclists flout this daft system. Und ob! You bet! Even normally law abiding Jazz und Ju-Ju . the devilish probationer magistrates tend to ignore that one und ride to the shops the normal way regardless.

I think then that any scheme will have to be monitored before becoming law. As I read the article . they are testing 4 streets und have been doing so since 2007

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Well tja ... that ist correct. But too many do not bother und I think they should use lights whenever visibility ist poor.. rear on in fog.. rain etc.

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

No.
It is the vehicle drivers responsibility to foresee all possible moves by those unfortunate/fortunate enough to not be in a vehicle !
Take, for instance, a person cycling at night with no lights and no reflective clothing. The vehicle driver should expect this sort of irresponsible behaviour and allow for it (most nights I can expect to see quite a few cyclists with neither lights or reflective items of apparel) (some very young....as in early teens).
I consider it a major achievement to have had no [as yet] accidents involving cyclists. Major because they take so little interest in their personal safety.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I don't suppose we can stick to the subject in question? I don't think anyone will dispute that some people are plonkers whatever mode of transport they choose.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable idea, applied sensibly. Many one way systems have been introduced simply to inconvenience the motorist anyway and there is ample room for cyclists to run opposing traffic. In these cases I would suggest an application of the white paint councils are so fond of using, and perhaps some of the yellow as well.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing