Safe Speed Forums

No its not just you. School run mummies, and a great many others for that matter, pass their driving test and then use their car as a means of getting around, thats it. They have no affinity with those around them, no sense nor concern of whether they are driving well or poorly and no sense of identity within a peer group.
Bikers and truck drivers do have such a sense of identity though and like to show their greater sense of communal spirit by sharing it with 'common as muck' car drivers Sadly, it seldom rubs off on them though

Yep, it had Urban Myth written all over it for me too.

I used to do the indicator wobble but the self canceller on my recent cars has not liked it so now I use the hazards (one or two flashes).

I have seen someone switch lights off and on at least once, and I'm certain it was in the Highlands..... Could it have been????

Not that I would but I can't flash the rear fogs on this car without the front ones coming on and it needs four flicks of the switch to do it anyway. And can't turn the taillights off when headlights are on auto and the engine is running (can turn headlights off by switching to sidelights though).

Oh have a day off will you! Even in this day of gratuitous rudeness, ignorance, and having two fingers stuck up one by appalling drivers who think they are empowered to enforce the rules of the road, people still feel a sense of self-worth when offered praise or thanks. And whilst it may not form a part of 'getting the job done', it certainly goes a long way to elevating the general appreciation that life really is worth living; its not just a slog commuting to a job whose a management offer no encouragement amidst a populace that never acknowladges acts of kindness.

Oh nuts

Yep. I think the 'speedo staring argument' needs to be tempered. If it had the apparent effect then I think we'd have utter carnage at speed camera sites. Figures suggest that we don't. I do believe the whole visual search thing is more complex and more tolerant than it appears.



Yes. Fumbling the switch would be very bad. Hoever fumbling the brakes or steering could well be worse. A well designed switch should not be a problem. In many of the cars I've been driving (older BMWs) the light switch is nicely to the right hand on the dash. Pull for sidelights, pull more for headlights. To flash the lights off it's long push, long pull. Quite an easy action and never once fumbled.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I can't see four actions. In most vehicles it's twist / untwist. In some it's push pull.

The hazard light flash often requires an extra action or two because the switch may latch. You have to press, check to see if it latched, then press again if it did.

I'm starting to realise here that what we REALLY need is a hazard light flasher button...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I agree entirely. In fact I see the "staring at the speedo" argument more as something that the likes of the SG put forward to ridicule our argument rather than something we've ever really put forward as a cogent reason against cameras.

No, I see the speedo thing more as a momentary distraction at a critical instant, where such diversion is now and again absolutely critical (but usually isn't).


Over the years I've sat in with one or two folk prone to fumbling the brakes or steering. It's very unsettling!

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Worse in my car it's not a switch, it's a button. The button tells the car's computer that you want to turn the hazard warning lights on!

Press it twice really quickly and it only 'sees' the first press. (although most people wouldn't press it quite that fast and would manage to turn it off ok)

As for looking at the speedo, I think it's ok to do so when you have planned it, made sure everything looks ok before you look down. It's useful to know what numeric speed you are doing at times. How fast am I going now? How far have I got to travel? What average speed will I probably be doing? How long will it take me to get there?
Next junction is this distance away, I'm going this fast, when should I start moving from lane 3 into lane 1?

Two problems cameras cause, 1. When you're driving somewhere near the limit and manage to see the camera before you get to it you'll keep looking down to make sure your speed hasn't increased as you drive past it. 2. When you suddenly notice a hidden camera/ghost camera lines the reaction is hit brakes and look down at the speedo. This is almost automatic and tends to take priority over anything else. (Like is the car behind going to end up in the back of me?)

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Andrew.

Ziltro is right about speedo staring. Looking at speedo used to be an activity that was only undertaken when hazard level is low - nothing else going on, lets check speed... Cameras and fixation on speed, cause speedo checks at times when hazard level is high such as when a camera is stuck there right at that accident black spot...(!), and are hence more dangerous than letting the driver select their own time to check speed.

Pipe down yourself - I hate road slobs as much as anyone else, but talk is cheap, RigPig, and it’s better to show your appreciation for humanity with good driving behaviour (like obeying the speed limit), not by vainly flashing lights to every Tom, Dick and Henriette that we pass.

Praise or thanks are only any good if they mean something. When everybody is anxious to praise or thank people for just doing their job, the praise and thanks are empty gestures. Indeed, the softies (poor souls) even get offended when praise and thanks is not continuously offered to them for merely doing their duty.



I did not say that I never acknowledge acts of kindness – I often do if it is over and above the call of duty. I don’t make habitual, empty, self-obsessive gestures that do us no good at all, if you think about it.

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Funny we don't hear so much about road rage in the media any more. There are still a lot of stressed drivers out there though. By signalling thanks when somebody does you a favour (That is not their duty - there are plenty of people don't!) you may be helping to reduce stress on the roads. That can have a crucial effect on road safety. Stressed drivers really are a danger to themselves and others.

To not signal a thanks implies arrogance and a 'I have right of way over you, so move out of my way' attitude.

Perhaps we need courtesy cameras, that automatically give you fines and points if you don't say thank-you to people who wait for you.

BTW I sometimes do the wobble, but I find it helps if you let go of the steering wheel first! I didn't once, by mistake, and the result was well, not good.

In the described situation I would sometimes put my hand up. The driver behind can see a silhouette - just as long as they don't mistake it for a finger!

I should have said "four operations": dipped > sidelight > off > sidelight > dipped. I know they can be combined but it's still four discrete electrical (dis)connections.

Anyway, 'lights off' is not an option in daylight. Seems better to have one method which works in light or dark plus hand signal if you know the other driver can see it.

Don't see particular problem with hazard switch latch. One solid push, then another will always latch/unlatch and give one flash (maybe two).

As you know, I avoid giving signals that don’t have ‘hard’ meaning, but you have triggered a memory of why I hate all this off-the-cuff malarkey. I was coming out of Betwys-y-coed on the A5, which is a good place for biking if you like to try your luck with bends. We were just at the top, near Pentre Foelas, when a pack approached us, giving us the biker wave, and all that. Trouble was, in taking his hand off the brake, one bloke ran into the fellows in front! Several of the pack crashed, and nearly caught me as well!

Nope – it’s best to mind your own business, unless you have something important to say.

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Very few signals have "hard" meaning as you call it. Depending on circumstances a right indicator coming on could mean a lane change, an overtake or simply a right turn. Even brake lights coming on can mean either slowing down or stopping. Almost every single time the meaning of a signal, whether it's the use of lights or a hand gesture, is clear due to the context in which it takes place. Humans are quite good at this. For example, the word "set" has apparently 464 defintions in the OED, but if I said "I set off this morning" you'd have no difficulty in working out which of those 464 defintions was appropriate. For that matter "hard" has got several different meanings, but I understand what you mean by it.


All that says to me is that the timing of the thank you gesture was inappropriate, not the principle of giving a thank you gesture.


Bye then.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

You just couldn't help yourself, could you?

Your point would have been just as well, if not better served if you'd left the bit in brackets out.



Guess we'll be hearing a lot less of you then...

So that must mean that you think it is not good driving behaviour to obey the speed limit! Sheesh...



Mind your own business!

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No, it means that obeying the speed limit is not strictly always good driving behaviour. You should have either qualified the statement or left it out because it is an incorrect generalisation.

BW, only you can take a topic about courtesy signals and twist it around to, "Thou shalt obey speed limits, or burn in the eternal fires of hell".

Perhaps someone should start a thread about, for example, sex, single malt whiskies or golf. You couldn't possibly hijack those subjects, could you?
Or could you?

Cheers
Peter

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

It doesn't take much to say thank you does it? if you only smile then that’s enough for me.
If I help someone out then I expect a thank you especially opening a door for someone and if I don't get one I pull them up about it.
I have not been placed on this Earth to make their life easier.
My four year old Daughter understands the positive effects of good manners and civility.
Basingwerk I don't know you from Adam but if I inconvenienced myself to aid you and didn't receive a sign of gratitude and later stopped at the same Garage you & I would be having words.

I had serious 'fireworks' at the garage last week so I've had enough for now. But thanks for that, paul w - I only hope we never meet!

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