Safe Speed Forums

The problem is, we are already there. No longer "Trust thy Neighbour", its "Distrust thy Neighbour". This is an endemic caused by the governments consistent insistance on a "fear" culture where we are told that we must have all these forms of intrustion to protect us. Rather than make us feel protected, we are being violated.

Will ID cards stop terrorism and crime? Will they buggery. Good old Humint does that - a good "snout" for example!

Will all of the CCTV and monitoring of vehicles stop terrorism and crime? May help to reduce crime, but again, not terrorism. Comes down to Humint again.

The availability of Human Intelligence for the police is being damaged by the policies put in place by this government. For many years we have been the envy of the world with the superb relationship between police and public. This has been eroded by such policies (esp speed cams).

Well that's rant mode off. Maybe I am talking out of the back of my head. Normally I do!

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It does. The whole thing is an arms race, as SafeSpeed put it – that is what the site is about, PeterE.

Technological progress, on one side of the arms race, gave us all the ability to leave our immediate group and we became anonymous in the wider world. And some did not behave well. The other side of the arms race (the cops, insurance companies, store detectives, football clubs, councils, border guards, port authorities … the list is endless) have taken up record keeping to reverse it; to reach another balance of some kind. Yes, it’s an arms race, where technology opens new opportunities (for good and bad behaviour) and the “authorities” play the same game to try and plug it. Some, like In Gear, prefer traditional methods. I hope they work, but I’m sure he will tell you that the police force depends on record keeping and data processing/DB searching etc. to an ever-increasing degree.



Yes, I hope you can see now that there was no inconsistency at all.

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Not at all – I agree with you fully about your conclusions, but not the cause.



I think we over-estimate the influence of government on society. Much of the change that happens to society is caused by new technology and techniques, the industrial revolution being the prime example, but we are in a vortex of change all the time. Even the fairly recent past is a different country. In my opinion, the reason why we have moved to "distrust thy neighbour" is that we no longer know (nor care) who our neighbour is because we have ceased to be involved with our locality.

For example, out on the road, another person is simply an obstacle to progress that has to be tailgated out of the way so that I can save five minutes journey time by breaking the law.

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I totally disagree about the Government. They are the ones driving the surveillance and control agenda. The development of technology which can be used (misused?) for this policy has happened - mostly independently but some funded by Government money.

The Government has a dramatic effect on our society - hence all its "initiatives" and politically correct legislation. Voicing your opinion, if it differs from the received wisdom, is now stifled due to Government will - not technology advance.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

And the societies of the world are driving the governments of the world. They are all at it, you know Malcolm, left, right and centre. It is not just ‘this government’, or ‘that government’ - it is whatever the current government happens to be.

Changes in technologies and techniques are changing societies of the world, and the tail has caught up with the head. It is an arms race/vicious circle, call it what you will, but whatever you call it, progress and record keeping are lock stepped together at every stage. Just look back.

It is quite pointless to blame the press, the politicians, the public, the DVLA, the NHS, the Education Secretary or the Archbishop of Canterbury! They/we are all part of a process, which brings this on all around the world.

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I imagine that's going to be one of the next things they change. Dealers will have to officially register all cars to themselves. If they can prove that they are a legitimate business, DVLA will let them register the car without incrementing the "Registered keepers" number on the logbook. For dealers "on the move", they'll sort it so that registration can be done with a mobile phone or something. There will be no escape.

You must understand what a database of everyone's movements is worth to those that control it. Every private company from advertising firms to property developers will be queueing up to pay £££££ for this data. And then there's road pricing.

Money is the real motivation, it always is.

The "justification" of blanket ANPR on the grounds of crime/terrorism prevention is just a case of them looking at the public and saying "They're so stupid they'll believe anything". Just like "Speed kills".

What they don't seem to have anticipated is this data falling into the wrong hands. Even if you trust the Government, do you trust the 20 year old new recruit who works for the private company contracted to host the data? The guy who takes £100 bungs from his criminal mates to do illicit "look-ups" on the data. All a criminal needs is your registration number and he will know not only where you live, but what times of day you're not in. A paedophile sees you and your kids out, takes down your registration. A quick phone call and he's got your address and knows that you don't get home from work until after 6PM... So, those kids are home alone for 2 hours, are they?

Are you scared yet? You bloody well should be.

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“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

In the Soham Inquiry (Bichard), the police and education authorities were criticised for not having reliable data and procedures. Yet you suggest that data and procedures are counter productive in some cases. What is the middle ground? How should the authorities conduct themselves in an era when data that could detect criminal activity is increasingly becoming available in record keeping systems? Should systems be joined together and searched, or should they be kept apart, obscuring access?

PS Case in point - the various offenders registers and education recruitment processes.

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We all thought that the DVLA system would be kept under wraps - but hey , they can make money out of it , so it's not too sensitive .How long before this happens elsewhere??

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Sharing existing data on known offenders between Government departments is one thing. Storing new data on EVERYONE, just in case some of them MIGHT become offenders at some point in the future is a different proposition altogether.

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“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

And i guess a certain R Kelly might vouch for how well Govt departments share/use data

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

But that is all over now - it's a done deal, antera309. There IS a lot of data on everyone to trawl through, but you might as well try turning back the tide!

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