Safe Speed Forums

These other drivers, these dimwits you mention. There are lots of them out there, they probably outnumber Safespeed acolytes by thousands to one.


They are too stupid to know how to drive into a lane restriction.


Yet the whole point of Mr. Smiths safespeed website is a desire to let THEM decide what speed they should drive at.

:sheesh:

_________________
COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Something which a change in the Highway Code and a few public information films would rapidly sort out.


Oh no it isn't (as you know very well)

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I think the point is that we all agree that zip merging 100 yards or so (or wherever the optimum point falls depending on traffic volume and speed) before the pinch point is the ideal thing to do IN A PERFECT WORLD. We are not in a perfect world, we are in a world full of morons who aren't capable of thinking far enough ahead to avoid rear-ending the car in front, let alone allowing joining traffic to move over.

R11co - have you ever stopped to think about the situation you're putting yourself in when you crawl past an HGV and then cut in in front? Depending upon which side you pass him, he can't see you for about the last 15 feet of your overtake and he sure as hell won't be able to see your indicators flashing - if you're on his near side he won't be able to see your indicator until the front of your car is about 6 feet in front of his cab. Driving an HGV in that kind of stop/start traffic is EXTREMELY demanding, so by blocking one lane close to the obstruction he's doing himself a favour and reducing the likelyhood of some muppet trying to push past him whilst he's trying to change lanes.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Per my reply a little earlier in this thread, which seems to have been ignored.

If a left and right lane are funnelled into one central lane, neither side will have right of way and both sides will have to merge. Does that not force the merging action on to all, numpties included?

Sorry thub, you were lost in the dust there. That is a good idea IMO.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Provided it's done in a safe manner what is wrong with using otherwise empty road like that.

I have done it from time to time and a number of junctions seem to have been designed to make it even more advantageous by lengthening sliproads.

Do you also think it is right to use the whole sliproad before joining a queueing motorway? Or do you think (as a number seem to) that everyone should join the queue as soon as the chevrons finish (or in some cases cross the chevrons illegally).

If it's so demanding, he should simply stick to the lane he's in and leave a reasonable gap between himself and the vehicle in front. Trying to straddle two lanes is always going to make more demands on his attention.

And attempting to baulk other road users (particular those driving legally) is always wrong, and in cases such as this almost certainly illegal.

The sooner we get zip-merging in the HC the better

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

It's only forcing if the other drivers don't co-operate. Ideally we would like to see the idea pushed more as the official "correct way". It's already supported by the police and in a few areas it is encouraged and backed by signage (such as the bottom of the A629 Elland bypass on the way to Halifax from the M62).

If you want to stop people using the closed lane to queue jump then filling it with traffic seems like the best way.

Then isn't it safer for the HGV to stay in L1 where the O/S blind spots are less, rather then trying to straddle both lanes and obsessively monitor other drivers making legitimate progress?

Well, seems like I'm in the minority here. Push in front of me at your peril.

The signs say GET IN LANE. So get in f*****g lane. Do you push in front of people at the super market? Or queing to to for a pee? Or at a queue at a concert? Nope, didn't think so. I got in to a big concert very early recently to book my place at the front in the mosh pit. I noted the was plenty of room behind me for the late comers.

Ok if the traffic is moving freely, but on no account drive 1 mile past the signs saying GET IN LANE then push in past stationary or near stationary traffic (unless on 2 wheels) .

LGV drivers that block the lanes by straddling them I THANK YOU. You are doing the polite people of this world a service and deserve happy things to happen to youm and I will always let you back with a friendly wave.

Would you class entering a congested 2 lane dual carriageway in the same category as this? It's just as it happens I had a "confrontation" yesterday as a result of a similar situation to the one that started the thread and was wondering people's opinions as it is (I think) a related issue.

Picture the scene...sliproad onto DC, which is slow (stop-start) due to volume of traffic. 3 cars ahead of me on the sliproad see the congestion and try to merge at the first available opportunity (presumably thinking it's not right to use the length of the sliproad.) They stop on the slip road to do this, and sneak into a gap (helping to maintain the problem congestion?).

Seeing the larger spaces in the road towards the end of the sliproad I pass several cars waiting in the stop-start, reach the end of the sliproad and merge infront of the traffic in L1 easily, before being able to take advantage of a large gap to move into L2 and on my way...soon afterwards in more free-flowing traffic before someone who has obviously taken offence to this "move" flashes me in my rear mirror and makes various signs and gestures and mouthing I was a effing w____er whilst driving up my bum for a few hundred metres and nearly taking my bumper with him as he overtook.

My view of the situation...ignorance on the part of the final driver, certainly. And lack of education, experience, whatever on the part of the few who stop on the sliproad and merge in at first opportunity...but what happens (sometimes) if you don't? You get ignorant people who take offence to a "bad" move and drive like morons themselves. A bit like telling someone not to "f**ing b*st*rd swear". Hypocrites.

Unless of course, I was in the wrong. Which I'd be willing to accept (or at least consider) if that's what people think. Incidently the driver I went in front of in L1 from the sliproad didn't react in any way.

The "morals" of such things aside, what about drivers who genuinely make a mistake and come off at the wrong junction or realised they were in the wrong lane at the last moment, perhaps they need the next right and not the one they're at now after all? Would you rather they barged into the right lane or swerved back onto the carriageway they were leaving as they realised their mistake? Or maybe they could do what you see as "dirty driving". Which surely is actually safer?

Can't see what you did wrong there, providing the lane merge/changes were conducted reasonably politely.

Of course...like I said, no one I actually drove close to were botherered and indeed seemed to hang back to allow me to move into the space. I suppose my point was two-fold:

1) People know that this sort of thing can provoke others and so don't make use of the available space as a defence against aggressive behaviour

2) Most people need to either be better educated or more open-minded. Or both.

This is just a "no brainer" IMO.

As most people have implied, put up the "prepare for merge / merge now" signs, change the "queue" protocol, and VOILA!

This is what I wrote in another thread (General Chat, "Road rage on the A1 today" thread, don't know how to link to it sorry).


Whilst I agree that "educating the masses" is probably a worthy cause, I doubt the practical effectiveness of this, unless you're willing to wait a long time to see real results.

I have been driving in the Netherlands long enough to have experienced first hand the situations at various locations both BEFORE and AFTER the "zip-merge" ("ritsen" in Dutch) signs were implemented.
I can categorically state (IMHO ) that the bad feelings and negative effects of the different approaches to "how to merge" were very similar, if not identical to what I have experienced in similar road situations in the UK before the signs were put up.
I was VERY impressed with how instantly, easily and painlessly the situation at these locations improved once the signs were there. They are visible, everybody sees them, they make sense, and the vast majority of motorists obey them, even in congestion situations.

To my mind this is one area where the UK road system powers that be could make a very positive "quick win" for very little cost.

I don't like those signs. "Merge in turn" signs are much nicer.
There is no customary or legal reason why you shouldn't change lanes whenever you want, so signs saying "GET IN LANE" tend to make one set of people think "I must do this now because the signs say so and so must you" and another think "I don't have to yet so I won't" and both annoy the other.

I quite like the Australian way of merging lanes where, from what I remember, the line in the middle of the lanes just ends and that's it. There may have been warning signs too.

_________________
Andrew.

"Get in Lane" signs are normally used when different lanes lead to different destinations at a junction, when it does make sense to get in the appropriate lane early if possible.

I'm not aware they're generally used for 2 into 1 situations.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Well - when we drive abroad - we see signs actually telling us to zip-merge - and some time back, when there were road works arinbg the 'Reebok stadium in Bolton (I'd taken my sport mad sons to a Man U Derby there ) I noticed a sign ordering me to zip-merge and it eased the congestion very well.

But then - I guess it is indeed part of a British begrudging culture which I do not see when abroad - where using all avaliable tarmac without getting making a silly fuss seems normal and most logical. Nothing wrong with zip merging and the Highway Code does say that we should allow traffic to merge in so as to keep the flow going (Rule 129... )

Nothing wrong with zip-merging and like everything else - it's essential to make friendly eye contact with the other drivers.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

The problem is really quite simple - the length of the queue and therefore the delay is proportional to the length of the restriction. So the longer the restriction the longer the queue.

If we merge lanes at the earliest point (say the 600yd marker) we are extending the delay by this additional artificially imposed restriction. If we merge 50yds before the pinch point we minimise the overall restriction and therefore reduce the overall impact for everyone.

'Queing up' nice and early actually wastes valuable road space. Zip merging reduces the effect of the bottleneck - its simple queing theory.

Zip-merging is recommended practice by the IAM and the organisation has been lobying the DfT for years to errect signs encouraging zip merging. Unfortunately the DfT feel the concept is 'too complex' for the avg. driver and they fear being blamed for accidents.

Until zip-merging is established practice everwhere (as it is in busy towns and cities) we will get one group feeling unfairly held up by another. My advice would be

why sit in the queue when you can make better use of the road space?

The most annoying behaviour is the self appointed policeman who sits in L2 maintaining position with L1 to prevent 'queue jumpers'. Even as a motorcyclist (who does not normally contribute to congestion) I get held up by these numpties who will swerve and weave if you make any attempt to filter them.

Well my advice to Rick99 would be to try a little experiment, next time the opportunity arises.

Imagine the next time you are in a merging situation. There you are tailgating the car in front to stop anyone "pushing in", alternately flooring the throttle and standing on the brakes every time the tiniest gap starts to appear in front of you, lest someone boldly barges in, and all the while glaring fixedly ahead with the customary 1000 yard stare.

Next thing you get one of those utter, utter swines who has decided that you are the car he is going to merge in front of. He has probably chosen that gap as the car in front of him merged in front of the car in front of you. Either way, that is the gap he has chosen and he's coming in.

The lane is getting ever narrower, he's overlapped half a length ahead of you but there ain't no way you are backing down. Now you are barely inches away from the car in front, inches from the cones on the left and inches from his nearside rear bumper, and still he won't back down.

The lane gets narrower, and narrower, he gets closer, and you push up even closer to the car in front, desperate not to let the bastard in. All is now silent in your car and you are aware of your wife wincing in the passenger seat and glaring at you for being so ridiculously territorial.

In the end he eases up, you slot through the gap with several inches to spare and the guy behind effortlessly lets him in. You will now be tailgated mercilessly by him for the duration of the roadworks, after which he will overtake aggressively at the earliest opportunity to regain the car-length of roadspace you invested so much zeal and stress in guarding, mouthing obscenities at you and yours as he does so.

Is it really worth it?

No, I don't think so. Next time why not try this approach:

If you insist on getting in the eventual lane early then fine, that's your prerogative. But this time, instead of using it as a battleground make a point of chivalrously giving just one other road user a break. Guard your gap if you must, but when you finally reach the end of the two lane section pick your man out of the other lane (yes, even if he's just come whizzing up out of nowhere) and make a point of ostentatiously opening up a gap especially for him and then waving him generously into it. As soon as he does so, overlap behind him to make it plain that you have now formed your part of the zip and this is now a single lane.

You lose one car length, but you also lose all the hassle. You gain a friend (ok only transiently) but moreover you get a really nice warm feeling inside from doing your good deed for the day. And what's more, you just shortened the queue!

You know it makes sense...!

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!