Safe Speed Forums

Yes.

Before investing stupid amounts of money in a system, and definitely before making big public announcments that virtually commit you to implementing it, spend some time making sure that it is practical, and complete fully costed risk assessments against all possible failures points.

If the system is not practical then come up with something else that will do the job (even re-examine why you want to do it in the first place) - do not just keep complicating the system design by bolting on a fix for this and then a fix for that - this is why so many systems fail to deliver on-time and on budget.

The general rule: "Keep It Simple Stupid" (KISS), should always be applied because then there is a lot less to go wrong.

This usage based road charging has so many obvious flaws that anybody with half a brain can see that it isn't practical for the task of "reducing congestion", so the only conclusion is that they want full and detailed tracking of vehicles for another reason...

Read your own post above, Basingwerk. You answered "YES" when asked if you'd ever taken SOMEONE ELSE'S property, namely a biro. As insignificant as this item is; it is still depriving the rightful owner of their property for all time - ie theft



Basingwerk, you seem to have great trouble in understanding the thrust of my argument. You say {snip} ...the slobs who have difficulty obeying the law....

You constantly DEMAND everyone drives at speeds below the posted speed limit at all times with no exception. You spout that someone who infracts the law in a minor way (most often without knowing they had done so) should never-the-less be punished as likely just as badly as though they'd wantonly transgressed. You like to label everyone on here as though each were some kind of maniac because of those few MPH.

You are almost certainly the type of individual who would say EVERYONE who goes to watch a football match is a football hooligan, without exception, I'm sure.

Well, Basingwerk, all I have done is apply your demands about "obeying the Law at all times without exception" to the notional misacquestition of a biro. YOU SAID "Yes Indeedy" when asked if you had ever taken a biro from work....

Well, Basingwerk. As you rightly say 31 mph in a 30 is (technically, I'd argue) breaking the law - but so too is depriving the rightful owner for all time of their biros.

No normal person, pissed off as we are with the over-zealous policing of the speed limits, wants carte-blanche for "SLOBS" (as you put it) to speed at 60, 70 or 80 mph +++ through our towns and villages. What we want is REASONABLE policing. The sort of policing that HYPOCRITES like YOU can't understand or choose to ignore.

Just for the record, I wouldn't give two monkeys about a missing biro. So what! But that's how I view 'minor', 'technical' speeding offences. If you took the time to read what people like Paul Smith have to say, you'd understand it.

But it's a free country, Basingwerk. So we have to allow you to spout your incessant crap about persecuting motorists and where the "smart money" is and all the other 'smug', 'smarmy' and 'cute' comments you like to roll out. However, when you do this and post such crass rubbish about "obeying the law at all times", don't be too surprised when people like me, highlighting similar examples to the one I gave, come and rock that cosy boat you're floating in.

INAPPROPRIATE SPEED KILLS, not the speed itself.

When will it sink in that I don't agree that it is OK to steal? How many times do I have to say that? For the last fucking time, it is WRONG! And please quit with the daft fonts if you want me to keep bothering with you.

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I stole this .sig

Norwich Union already use it for hypothecating insurance costs. Does your argument still stand now that usage based charging is a reality right now?

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I stole this .sig

I must admit, despite the smokescreen you are so skilfully laying, I'm also having trouble reconciling your views here. Perhaps it might help if you could clarify what you meant by "yes indeedy", as to me this reads like a nodding approval of petty theft as being acceptable.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Hmm. This is at best a naive viewpoint. The spin off of such road charging is that those in control of the system could abuse it to steer business and populace to particular areas under the pretence of supply and demand.

If someone decides a rural area is ripe for development they can encourage an influx simply by designating the access routes a 'toll free zone'. Even the most vehement environmentalists must appreciate what such a system could permit if it fell into the 'wrong' hands...

I ain’t no saint, I’ll admit that! "yes indeedy" means that yes, I have stolen pens, but that I don't think it is right. I have speeded, and I don’t think that is right either. I was not being a good catholic!

Nowadays, I try not to steal or speed. As the Beatles said, it’s getting better all the time.

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I stole this .sig

Do you think you should be punished?

Norwich Union are famous around here for including properties in their Flood Risk data base, and denying people insurance, when they have NEVER been flooded, and in one case, the householder lived on top of a hill!!!! The insurance Ombudsman forced them to send an assessor, who agreed it would never flood, so they renewed his insurance cover, but refused to alter the database to benefit his neighbours!!

I live in a 'rural' area too, but it gets millions of visitors every year, and the roads become gridlocked, so where do you think our roads will be in the pricing structure? The National Park Authority are applying for World Heritage Site status, and wish to discourage many of the 'Blackpool' type visitors - what better way than to increase the charge for using the roads!!!!
Government IT projects are doomed to failure. The new NHS patient records system originally estimated toi cost £6 BILLION is now expected to cost £30 BILLION, so the pay per mile charging will NEVER exist.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I really don't think this is a valid comparison. The NU system is a voluntary one, which offers a substantial cost-benefit to its subscribers. Furthermore there is no real requirement for it to actually work reliably, all it needs to do is work for enough of the time to give a credible risk that a user circumventing it might get caught in order for it to be effective.

To move from that small scale system to one which is (a) used to impose a punitive tax, and (b) needs to log ALL vehicle movements ALL of the time is a leap too far.

The amount of money at stake would guarantee wholesale development of all manner of electronic counter measures that would make the current proliferation of laser detectors look negligible. The actual costs of continually redeveloping the technology to try and stay ahead of the counter-technology would spiral, not to mention the costs of trying to enforce its use.

And of course, those who would stand to pay the highest revenue would have the strongest incentive to keep up to date with the latest state of the art counter measures, so the very road users it is aimed at taxing most heavily would be the ones most likely to evade it, leaving the rest to pick up the spiralling costs.

And that's all assuming that the system actually works to start with. In reality it won't, not for the reasons that BW says, but because the Government won't pick "expensive" developers who use modern techniques to build a "Right First Time" system, they will pick the ones that lobby the heaviest and tell them the biggest lies about costs and delivery, then spectacularly overrun on both. Then other contractors will be hired at inflated rates to correct the errors made by the first ones etc etc.

The end result would be a system where a limited percentage of the population who can least afford it contribute at ever-increasing rates, with probably 50%+ of the revenue going in Administration. A bit like another NHS, but without the fringe benefits of making people better...

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

OOOOOOOOOOoooooooo. Raw nerve, eh?

I disagree with your sincerity in your claim about your views with regard to obeying the law.

You openly admit engaging in petty theft, kind of laughing it off as inconsequential (ie disobeying a law you want to put your own interpretation upon), yet you demand different standards from other people with regard to motoring laws.

You're a HYPOCRITE, Basingwerk. Simple as that. Your moto is "Don't do as I do, do as I say".

Still, at least other people now know what sort of "smart monied" man you are, don't they? Is the "Smart Money" made from flogging those pens petty thieved at an opportune time in the past???

Time to wake up and smell the coffee, Basingwerk. People are queuing up to laugh at your hypocritical double standards.

"Obey the Law at all times!", says Basingwerk, apart from those ones Basingwerk likes to break as he chooses from time to time.

Lock up your biros, I'd say. You never know what sort of cleptomaniacs post on this board.

What do you think, Homer? We have a confession of misapprpriation of other people's biros contrary to sections 1 & 2 of the Theft Act 1968. Maximum fine £10,000 and or 10 year in prison.

Should we offer the culprit a CONDITIONAL 6 weeks porridge and a reduced fine of £600 and no further questions asked???

Is "Basingwerk" a German word meaning 'fruitcake of the Gestapo' or something similar?

Could be a German word for Troll, couldn't it?

As long as it wasn't more than 3 or 4 biros then I think he could go on a "theft awareness course".

It's the name of a ruined abbey in Flintshire in North Wales, btw

A lot of his postings suggest he comes from that neck of the woods.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Tell that to my grandfather who smoked like a trooper from the age of 15 and managed to last until he was 93.
Sure smoking is bad for you, but it is NOT guaranteed to kill you (that is just another mantra pumped out by nanny).


No it wouldn't.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Of course, all thieves and speeders should get it in the neck!



Never say never! Analogs already exist, with Norwich Union Insurance Tracking, and via toll charges on certain roads and areas.



That’s a biased characterisation - a revenue neutral implementation will benefit as many drivers as it dis-benefits, with offsets to achieve reduced congestion and travel time offsetting to maxminse bandwidth while minimising environmental impacts. I do see a problem in that the system would be regressive which I dislike. Not sure what to do about that – perhaps charge a lot extra for single occupant usage?



Thanks for quitting with the fonts – I think I speak for everybody when I say that we really appreciate that. On the other thing you've been trolling about, I have stolen a few pens, but not today, this week or this month. I take a handful back sometimes, when they clutter my computer room up, so I’m about pen neutral, overall.

I recommend that you do the same. In the same way, we should try to obey the driving laws. It’s really quit simple once you have made the pledge.

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I stole this .sig

And I have exceeded the speed limit from time to time, but I drive under the limit sometimes, when conditions require it, so I'm about speeding neutral, overall.
You really do come over as a sanctimonious prig sometimes,Basingwerk.

Well, fair play to you - you are only a disgusting road slob some of the time!

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I stole this .sig

As indeed you are only an oleaginous sanctimonious kleptomaniac some of the time. Well done you

Prepare the gallows for Basingwerk, folks.....