Safe Speed Forums

Just received a "Final written warning" from Macclesfield Police.

Apparently my "vehicle...was monitored and found to be exceeding the speed limit..." This was done by "Community Speedwatch Volunteers" and the details have now "been passed to the Macclesfield Neighbourhood Policing Unit (which is) targeting vehicles which consistently exceed the permitted speed limit"

The "speed trap" in question was being run by an old "uncle albert" type with a laser who clocked me on the way past. As i haven't received a NIP the Community Speedwatch Volunteers obviously have no legal powers and no way of proving whether i was or wasn't speeding.

As a "final written warning" it's also a first written warning, haven't ever received one before!

The question is....Is it legal for these CSV's to be targeting cars and passing details to the police when there is no way they can charge you with anything?

I'm vaguely considering replying to the letter and asking to see the photographic evidence of the supposed "crime", any point?

Cheers

There is no point. This is just bluff and bluster. Just be careful that one day the CSV patrol isn't a policeman with a real calibrated speedgun.

Of course, I cannot condone any breaking of the law but in this case there is no proof that you have done so.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

If you were speeding I would be inclined to accept the warning: after all, at least they are showing discretion by issuing a warning.

If on the other hand the accusation is false, then write back and complain. There may be data protection issues as well as libel issues surrounding the false allegation.

My response is......OK what are you going to do now!

Obviously the evidence is not admissible in court otherwise you will have already been prosecuted.

I would ask them for a complete summary of information acquired to date complete with the names of the witnesses in case you want to challenge the warning.


Maybe a letter to the Police Complaints about harassment.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Perhaps we could consider developing a standard response. Something along the lines of:

Dear Sir,

I dispute the allegation you have made against me and challenge you to provide evidence of the alleged offence.

If you cannot provide evidence I shall consider my legal position with regard to your unsupported allegation.

I would also like you to explain why you feel justified in making unsupported allegations. Surely the job of the Police is to uphold the law? I do not see how you can uphold the law while you are squandering scarce resources on issuing unsupported allegations.

Yours etc...

Something like that?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I would consider your "final written warning" consistent with harassment, at least if it happens again and you recieve another letter.

Have the police conducted any background checks to determine whether these grandads with speedguns don't have criminal records?

Are they just dishing out final warnings to the Registered Keeper without any care as to who was actually driving?

That would be a bit naughty.

Some potential mean replies...

Dear old guy,

Thank you for letting me know that a vehicle of which I am the registered keeper is capable of doing 36mph. Next time I'll try and get a higher number.

Or...

Dear old sod,

Thank you for your letter informing me my vehicle was travelling at 35mph. I am concerned however, as at no point along the stretch of road being monitored did my speed drop below 40mph.

Or...

Dear Mr. NIMBY,

I am confused as to why you are sending me, as the registered keeper, this letter. I would prefer in future if you could send such correspondance to whoever is driving at the time.


Or...

FINAL WARNING:
Stop firng lasers at me while I am driving or I'll thump you.


I bet leasing companies would get annoyed at getting these letters. Could almost be harassment!

I am of course assuming that the letters go to the RK as they have nowhere else to go really.

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Andrew.

If everybody sent a suitably snotty letter back this obnoxious practice would cease overnight.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Yes. I think so too.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Dear Mr. Toomuchtimeonhands,

Yes I was exceding the speed limit, but was I driving dangerously? I currently have 0 points on my license and have never been involved in an accident. Can you say the same?

Love,

A Speedy Motorist.

*ahem* I should stop now...

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Andrew.

As you obviously weren't speeding you can ignore it. I imagine these will be followed up by police radars (I seem to remember this is how this will work, more problematic areas will be targetted).

Unless you actually speed and the police catch you, there is nothing to worry about. Probably some guy couldn't work the thing properly.

They can't do you for what you haven't done. Have faith.

I wonder if threatenign to sue for libel unless you recieve a written apology would work.

Hopefully no need to actually sue for libel and make the guy's life an expensive misery, but just make them write a letter, and possibly make them think twice about getting involved in such a scheme.

Libel is about reputation and requires a third party. So no, I don't think so.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

How does it require a third party, and how is there not a 3rd party involved here?

NIMBY with camera tells police that the OP was speeding.

Police write snotty letter to OP and also target OPs car as a result of NIMBY's "information"

Therefore NIMBY has libelled the OP?

An interesting use of the word NIMBY here.

The definition is "Not In My Back Yard". That would suggest someone who advocates speeding, but not in their area.

Do you know this is the case, or is this individual against speeding full-stop?

Pedantic but relevant. If they believe in speeding, who the hell do they think they are 'combatting' it!?

The interesting bit about it is.....I think i probably WAS over the 40 limit, but they clearly can't prosecute using the "old duffer" system.

My main objections to the letter are; the "Final Warning" part, the fact that it's aimed at the Registered Keeper, not neccessarily the driver, and the fact that the old duffer (with presumably no actual jurisdiction) is able to pass my details to the Police without any real evidence. How many numberplates does he write down a day? Does he get them all right?? Who knows? There's no photographic evidence.

It's Police harassment pure and simple.

(Nanki Poo, it's not relevant, stop being so pedantic )

This article might interest you.

http://tinyurl.com/g3g9t

Although I live in the local area, I must confess that this was news to me!

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Brian

[QUOTE=Sgt Ian Holley (from that article)]The biggest benefit we have noticed is the peace of mind it has given to the residents involved, who are now actively doing something to help reduce the level of speeding on their roads.[/QUOTE]

So they admit that the scheme is there to placate a bunch of whingers with too much time on their hands.

[QUOTE=that article]Drivers clocked driving excessively fast, over 36mph in a 30mph zone, will be sent a warning letter from the police. While no criminal prosecutions can be metered using the scheme, police may be sent out to patrol areas where speeding has been recorded[/QUOTE]

And said whingers also have a motivation to lie about the speeds they're recording.

... unless, for example, it appears when someone does an in-depth CRB check on you and it costs you a potential job.

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Will