Safe Speed Forums

Anyone any advice? I recently witnessed a complete idiot (no exagerating) driving a police car. It was going so fast I could only take down the first part of the reg. I was going to write to the CC of the area concerned but wondered if anyone could advise.

depending on how serious serious is, then sure go for it, together with the area, but as u dont have the full number they will almost certainly say, sorry we can't trace the culprit.

let the group know their reply..

I dont think u can let it go without mention,...

rgds
bill

Bill thanks.

I tried that recently after the conduct of a particular officer when he pulled me over for speeding. As expected, despite his disgusting attitude towards me which was most probably because he couldn't do me because there was no film in his camera, his mate backed him up to the Sargeant and said that his conduct was impeccable.
Hmmmm.
I think that a half hour lecture about the numerals on my numberplate being 5mm too narrow whilst at least twenty uninsured, untaxed and unMoTd vehicles drove past was exactly what I needed - same goes for everyone out there whose lives are put in danger by these folk.
The two charges - one for each numberplate - will see me in court on December the 10th. Not that I'm bitter, they've got to do their job. Which is getting the easy hits and leaving the policing to... errrrmmm... someone else? Maybe?

I complained quite sucessfully about The Police once. My neighbour was playing "Walking on the Moon" so loud I couldn't hear myself think!

Ahem.

Seriously, I was riding my bike down a country road a few weeks back (spoke to Paul about this at the time I recall) when I noticed a BMW approaching from behind at 'kin high speed As I tipped my bike into a blind left hand bend the BMW overtook me in the bend - if I'd had to widen my line around the corner for any reason I'd have been porked! On glancing down I spotted three white shirted gentlemen with large epaulettes in the BMW and thought 'Crikey, thats a bit naughty officers'. The chap driving the 4 x 4 who appeared from around the right hand bend up ahead just as the Beemer was regaining its own side of the road obviosuly thought so too as he proffered a flash of the lights and a suitable gesture.
I realise the feds have to practice high speed driving, but not at the expense of my safety and sanity surely?

Unfortunately the police, as in every other profession, have their bad apples. While I agree with catching the bad apples I think it is also important to remember that the majority of the police are hard working, caring individuals who have the public's best interest at heart. I'm sure "In Gear" would agree and I'm sure he would be likely to view the situations described very seriously.

I have had some bad run-ins with the police as well, even been threatened by one "you really want your head punched in, don't you?" were his exact words as I recall. All this because I questioned his radar guns accuracy (I had a detector and it did not go off but as they are illegal I could not mention this). I lodged a complaint about him but of course it went nowhere. I have been told by the Police Ombudsman’s office that if three unrelated complaints about an officer are received, even if no action is taken at the time, the officer will be "desked" for a time and be counselled.

I have also met some absolute gems of police officers, one booked me for speeding and we then talked for the next 20 minutes (late at night, very little traffic), really nice copper with a really nice attitude (I was speeding and I did deserve to be booked). I have also had the occasional "In Gear" lecture and have nodded and "yes officer'ed" at the appropriate time. They were really nice as well and even though I was nodding and saying the right things I was also listening.

Cops are people too, so complain about the bad ones by all means, but occasionally mention the good ones as well so they will see that we do appreciate them..

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Said it before ... it was drummed into me when I joined that

1. I am not entering a profession which will make me ppular with my customers.

2. I am to represent the LAW and even in my private life ... I am an "ambassador" for the police.

3. The people who pay my wages have certain expectations of my conduct at all times.

4. I am supposed to serve and protect the people who pay my wages ... the general taxpayer.

So... I would suggest if you see one of us misbehaving ... you are entitled to complain. I f you do not .. then we are not going to be able to do something about the officer concerned ... via the internal disciplinary means we employ....

For record... try to keep my cool on the job....and not easy if someone pulls a weapon on you (as they have in the past...)

If someone resists arrest ... you still have to be fairly careful about the level of force you use ... else they start chasing ambulance

But generally speaking ... am polite to my "customers" even with the "acid delivery". In fact .. calm cultured voice gets up their noses far more ...

I've never held much stock with this "I pay your wages" crap - I reckon it's usually the last riposte of the arrogant twat whose protestations have gotten him/her nowhere and has nothing constructive to say in their defence.

I only met this kind of BS once or twice whilst in the Armed Forces, we don't have to interface with Joe Public as much as the police. On one occaision it was when I refused a Granada TV repair man access to the unit until he'd booked in properly at the guardroom. He gave me the old "I pay your wages" line, but I was able to point out that, as I rented a Granada TV and video at the time, I also paid his. Touche

Interesting point. On the one hand we have a largely lawful society where the majority should have nothing to fear from the Police. I have strong sympathies with a law abiding citizen who falls fouls of a technical regulation. On the other hand we have a system of laws that no one can hope to obey continuously.

I think we used to use common sense, where folk were properly recognised for their responsibility and good character. Now we're progressively abandoning common sense and going more and more towards pointless technical precision.

Nowhere is this more evident than in speed enforcement. I'm not in the least little bit surprised that proud and responsible citizens are heard to declare: "I pay your wages" when faced with unnecessary officiousness.

Note also that real scrotes may also claim: "I pay your wages". The trick is surely to know who is saying what and why.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'm always a bit skeptical about the "law abiding people have nothing to fear" line. History has demonstrated again and again that law-abiding citizens have a great deal to fear from state oppression and the strong arm of the law.

But what is the law, anyway? What about grey areas where the courts have made conflicting rulings and the law is therefore unclear? What about the creeping advance of legislation into every area of public and private life? What is legal on Monday may be illegal on Tuesday.

Is it sensible to expect every citizen to be fully aware of the hundreds of millions of pages of parlimentary legislation, local council legislation, case law, bylaws, regulations and codes of practice that directly affect our lives? How can ignorance of the law be no defence when it is simply not physically possible for an individual to read and absorb all of the law within a single lifetime? That's why solicitors specialise.

Take radar detectors for example. Once they were "illegal" and people could be prosecuted for using them. Such people were clearly not "law abiding." Then the law was tested and, whoops, the interpretation was found to be deficient. Suddenly, radar detectors were legal. All those criminals were now, retrospectively, law abiding again. Yet, since it was the interpretation of the law that was wrong, rather than the law itself, hadn't those people really been "law abiding" all along? Yet thousands of these law abiding people had been plenty afraid.

In short, who can be absolutely sure that they are "law abiding" when even the law often doesn't know?

One of the cornerstones of the criminal law (in England and Wales, at least) has been the principle of the guilty mind accompanying a guilty act (Mens Rea and Actus Reus in typically impenetrable legal Latin). This means that, in order to be deemed guilty of a criminal act, the offender should have both committed the act and INTENDED to commit it (or at least been reckless about commiting it).

In recent years, however, we have been inundated with a raft of so-called "strict liability" offences, where no intention is required. Parking fines fall into this category. You don't have to have intended to overstay at the meter, the fact that you did it is sufficient.

While strict liability has been a godsend for the courts, that would otherwise be choked by people claiming that the "mental component" of their crime had not been present, it has been a disaster from a civil liberties perspective. The idea that you can be guilty of an offence that you had no intention of committing flies in the face of most definitions of natural justice. The act of merely forgetting has been criminalised.

With the introduction of mandatory National ID cards (which will have to be carried at all times), forgetting your wallet or handbag when you leave the house will become a crime (as it is in the US).

To my mind, this is all merely part of the creeping criminalisation of the British people. Drivers, smokers, frustrated parents, the forgetful - all are being subtly pushed closer and closer to criminality. Perhaps the ultimate goal is to make everyone a criminal, because criminals can easily be denied their civil rights, can't they?

To those "law abiding people" who "having nothing to worry about," I say, "are you sure on either count?"

The annoying thing is that when I went to my local police station later on that day to produce my documents and had a wee rant about the officer and how the local police wouldn't have bothered charging me for something so stupid, the nice police lady behind the counter replied "oh no, we're too busy catching criminals".
Anything else? Yes, I speak to the local WPC in the pub quite a lot, apparently they were quite pissed off about the conduct of the officer that stopped me - reasoning that my distinctive white rear numberplate which never actually used to be illegal but is now for some reason - looked really good and "we always knew it was you which is handy".
Meaning they're well aware I'm not gonna drive like a twat when I'm instantly recogniseable...

Folks,

99.9% of uniformed shift-working Police Officers are good honest caring people. Unfortunately the very small minority can be complete pratts. I have been lucky enough to mostly work with the good ones! NEVER let one experience with an idiot tarnish your view of the Police. The fantastic heroic work done by Police is never published because it doesn't sell papers, but any mistake is broadcast to the masses.

I have driven many hundreds of times at speeds far greater than the speed limit, without blue lights or two-tones on. There are various reasons why, which unfortunately 'joe public' would not be aware of. To certain observers i might just look like i'm taking the p**s, when in fact there's a valid reason. However, yes, there are those who use the uniform to break driving laws. In my experience these are normally the most basic of drivers who have let it go to their head. You tend to find that Response or Advanced drivers are far more disciplined in their approach to Roadcraft.

As to complaining, i would honestly say not to bother. Most prattish Police drivers come-a-cropper sooner or later, and believe me, if you have an accident you are NAILED TO THE WALL nowadays by Traffic Sergeants. They look for ANY excuse to take permits off people (NOT talking from experience, touch wood!!)

Hi there The Man,

My own personal hunch is that many of the 'complaints' are in fact fatuous nonsesne - not implying that the thread starter is guilty in this respect.
In spite of what one reads about the nanny state, and other similar stuff, folks today are left pretty much to their own devices, and many are not used to being 'told off' by others in authority. Thus, when this happens, they react badly - 'how dare you try to tell me what to do". I have met such self-important types through my duties in the services, and it doesn't matter how polite you are they don't want to be inconvenienced or told what to do by the likes of myself.
NB: 99.9% of the public I met in such an official capacity were polite, understanding and helpful, thank you to them all for not giving me any grief.
Then again, I would have been holding a high velocity 5.56mm assault rifle at the time

Rigpig,

Yep, i know exactly where you're coming from on that one! This is why people should not complain about Police unless they really have been harshly treated. All it does is waste a lot of time, and can turn certain individuals into 'serial complainers', who won't be taken seriously.....

Also, people talk about writing to the Chief Constable etc. Total waste of time. Believe me, he'll never see that letter, he's far too busy with his coffee-mornings and 'gender focus training implementation' (anyone realized i'm a bit of a cynic in my job yet?!).

There's a saying in the Police that "s**t rolls downhill", and the complaint will too!!

Hi The Man...

South East? London? Kent?The Met? (Have big brother in the Met) .

I am based up North - in Durham! In case you are wondering ... am related to the Mad Doc (Moggie driver) by marriage. His wife is my cousin as her Mum and my Dad are brother and sister.

True - complaints have to be justified to be taken seriously. Our mob take note of some complaints which waft in about conduct - and they get mentioned in the daily briefings...as a reminder to "behave in a professional manner at all times"




True.. again. best really writing to the Super or an Inpsector directly...

My boss is good ... and he has the backing of all officers here,. I am lucky. similarly GMP and North Yorks CCs are held in esteem by their staff. But... has to be remembered that running a police force is not an easy job ... and they must be allowed to get on with it.....

But we all know. don't we My "Man"... some CCs .... avoid vacancies under their guvnorship with the proverbial barge pole





Only too true mate .. but have to say I actually like my current boss!

Sensible chap .. he thinks like Joe Public on many issues!

Oh ... I know exactly how you feel. Our patch does not have a camera partnership, not do we have a forest of fixed cams ...but even the slightest increase in our returns ins pounced upon .... by the pro-scammers.

They fail to realise that we do not have areas which fit the scam criteria in any case.... nor do we believe that they do any betteer than we do in person.



I would back you 100% on these points! There are so many things we do in course of a working day which we just cannot tell the general public about.


And we all know about "bad apples" ....

.



True ....we have our complacent types who get weeded out in the normal course .....

Our problem is .. we do not always tell Joe Public about it...

Sort of off-topic but relating to complaints....

A couple of years ago I had a lock-up broken into and some fire damage caused.

I went to the Garage after getting a call, no one there but I found a single piece of wood nailed across the door. It was easily pulled off by hand.

About a month later I got a bill for £240 from a glazing company. I inquired about this and found that the company was contracted by the Police to board up damaged property. I found the name of the Officer who attended the property and he said that control had called the contractor and he was there about 5 minutes maximum.

I thought I was being ripped off so I contacted the Police again and I was told this was a standard charge, whatever the work required. So I refused to pay the bill and wrote a letter of complaint to the Police.

I got a letter back saying it was not a Police matter and to take it up with the contractor, who had subcontracted the work to another company.

In the end I got a summons for the bill so ended up paying. I never got any joy in querying the contract with the Police. Just got fleeced.

BTW the crooks were never caught (the burglars that is). But then it was never investigated so not surprising...

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Speed camera policy Kills

That doesn't suprise me Gizmo about the 'boarding up' firm. Once they fix that door (or stick a flimsy piece of wood across it!) the matter then becomes a Civil Law one between you and the firm. No fault of the old bill, that's just the law i'm afraid. You've entered into a business agreement with the firm, without even knowing it! Complaining to the Police may have had the result of them using a different firm in the future, if they realized that particular one was ripping people off. Those contracts are worth good money so firms have to pull their weight.

As to the burglary not being investigated, thats the result of someone taking a look at it and deciding there was not really any investigation possible. The Police DO take burglary very seriously, certainly in the Met anyway. People often feel short-changed without knowing the full facts or how the 'system' works.

All the best mate........

Hello there In Gear,

I'm Met, South London (sorry i mean Saarf London!). So you're Durham? Just read an article in the latest Constabulary magazine at work about Durham old bill being given marked Fireblades or some other such two-wheeled weapon. Very nice!

Mad Moggie knows me, but by a different name, so it probably hasn't clicked with him yet. I'm sure once it does he will have a chuckle. I will say no more!

There's something horribly wrong with the "boarding up" story.

A contract only exists when there's offer, acceptance and consideration.

Since you (Gizmo) had no communication whatsoever with the boarders-up there could be no contract between you and them.

It's possible that a contract existed between the police (who gave the instructions) and the boarders up (who accepted the instructions).

If a "business arrangement" could be made to exist on the basis discussed, I could walk into a car showroom, choose a car, tell them to bill {a third party} and drive away in a cost-free car.

I am quite certain it would have been thrown out in court.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety