Safe Speed Forums

When approaching a junction with give way lines, many drivers just look right (well I assume they do) and if they think they can get away with the manoeuvre, turn left in front of traffic approaching from the right. They ought to realise that if they don't look right, left, right again the chances are that sooner or later they will collide with someone like them who is overtaking at a junction, when they shouldn't be.

In the last few weeks I have noticed a variation from certain drivers - they don't even reduce speed approaching the junction but carry on as if they are already on the major road. At least I don't have to reduce speed to maintain a safe gap as with the previous version!

Is this just modern driving practice moving up north or is it a new northern home-grown form of recklessness?

Left? Or I don't understand.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

if you're turning left from a minor to major at a T junction, traffic approaching will be to your right..

or that show i read it ?

Don't know about that, but what i am seeing more of is behaviour similar to "chicken" from vehicles on minor roads and on mini roundabouts when they approach from your left. The outward signs are that they do not intend to stop - virtually causing those with right of way to either stop or slow down/take evasive action .Appreciate that even with right of way, one should always be attempting to evade incidents, but IMHO this new breed are using this as a cheap way of barging through all give way chances.In short as long as no one calls their bluff ( a dangerous game ) they will not have to stop

NO!

Traffic will be approaching from both directions. Sometimes it's the overtaker approaching from your left that will kill you.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Paul, I think that's what he's trying to say.

That's the way I read it too.

The same deal as turning onto a one-way street. You still look the 'wrong' way to make sure some muppet isn't going the wrong way.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I always look both ways, too many years riding m/bikes.
You also have to remember that many cyclists ride on the footpath and frequently ride across road junctions as if traffic didn't exist.

I do too, but assuming isn't usually the best strategy. That's why I highlighted the problem in my post at 2:56pm above.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Having looked right, won't you be looking where you are going as you pull out anyway?

You might be too late as you move into the path of someone overtaking at 60mph plus.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

As a younger man I was doing my bike lessons, and I looked right before pulling out and got the aulde bugger teaching me straight in my ear:

"Thats what f'ing car drivers do you plonker, and thats how they'll hit you!"

Looked both ways ever since!

On which note, is it legal to overtake on the major road if there is a side road with give way lines to the right?

Usually they change to hazard lines, not no overtaking lines, which implies that it's still legal, possibly not the greatest of ideas but still legal.

And yes I agree that you should look both ways when pulling out which I took to be the OPs point as well.. most people dont!

Legal? Yes, unless it's 'careless' or 'dangerous'.

It's certainly foolish to overtake in such circumstances without exceptionally good vision / observation.

But if the junction is in the middle of flat fields, you can see that nothing is approaching from the right and the overtakee is going far too fast to turn right it is possible to overtake safely past a junction on the right.

Good overtaking involves elimination of danger by planning and observation. You usually can't eliminate the danger associated with junctions, so you can't normally overtake at or approaching them.

However, many good overtaking opportunities immediately follow a junction on the right.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Normally I only do it at night time if I know the side road is straight and I would be able to see headlights if there was anyone in it.



I've been more wary of it since a story on SXOC that was posted. Guy in a 200SX was stuck behind a tractor going 20mph, decided to overtake at what wasn't even a proper junction, just an open gate in the hedge. The tractor suddenly turned right without signalling, braking, slowing down or anything, he just yanked the wheel to the right and the SX splatted into the side of it moments later.

No idea what came out of that one, who whose fault it was determined to be.

I do however like these junctions where the centre line widens out into a right turn lane with broken hatching all around it. usually people get into that lane fairly promptly and they are long enough for you to use them for overtaking if they're not used. Usually gets me agressive light flashing afterwards though Also these junctions are unlikely to suffer from the problem that the OP raised.

I treat a side junction like a blind corner. If I can't see far enough along it to KNOW that there's nothing approaching the junction then I don't overtake. If I CAN see along the sideroad then I make a decision based upon what I can see. If there's no traffic at or approaching the junction then its a go, but if there's something at the junction or close enough to it that I know I can't complete the overtake before it gets to the giveway line, its a no go.

I've been caught out myself turning right out of a side road. The road to my left was clear with traffic approaching from the right. The front car to my right indicated to turn into the junction I was coming out of so as soon as I was 100% sure he was turning, off I went....at exactly the same time the bloke behind the car to my right decided to overtake the turning car. We didn't hit, but he gave me one HELL of a dirty look.....

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

143: DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

* approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road

I would suggest that given in evidence you would be convicted of "due care and attention" or maybe "dangerous driving" if you hit another vehicle turning out.

If junction on your right and you are sure what you are overtaking wil not turn right - BUT previous post re tractor can you be ?

How about driver who leaves right turn indicator on and then doesn't turn for a couple of turnings and then turns - who is derelict?

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I walk I cycle I drive and I vote