Safe Speed Forums

The good lady wife got nipped in November 2003 (47 in a 40 FWIW).

Having recently got married, and with starting a wedding car business, her licence had to be re-newed and the insurance company wanted licence details prior to sanctioning her to drive the Rolls and the Daimler.

When filling in the insurance form, she stated that she had no points (thinking that 3 years have expired. therefore no points on licence). However, today she received her new licence...........still with 3 points on it! The DVLA booklet states that SP30 points remain for 4 years.

Now, the magistrate at the time stipulated that the penalty was £60 and 3 points for 3 years. Yet the DVLA now seem to have decided that the points remain for 4 years

Can anyone clarify what the situation is? Who is right? DVLA? The courts?

Both are right!

The points have effect for 3 years, but must remain on your licence for 4.

The reasoning behind this is best illustrated by example:

Say you collect 9 points for various motoring offences. The law says that if you get a further 3 within 3 years you get banned under "totting up". Now lets say that after 2 years and 11 months you get stopped for speeding. If you could get your old points removed as soon as they expired then you'd simply elect not to take a fixed penalty but to go to court instead. This would take 3 to 6 months to happen, so in the meantime you'd be able to get your old points taken off your licence and take an apparently clean one to court. Having to keep them on your licence for four years prevents this.

Meanwhile Insurance companys want to know about any points they can, as this gives them a justification for loading your policy. The only limit here is the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act which states that they can't be held against you after 5 years, hence why Insurance Companies use this definition instead. No doubt they'd go further back were they allowed to...

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

A side issue: I thought a court hearing is mandatory in the case of a potential disqualification?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The points remain on your licence for four years, but the courts cease to pay attention to them after three years.

It used to be. In the past I have issued arrest warrants for drivers who persistently refused to come to court for a disqualification hearing.

These days a court would only do that in really exceptional circumstances.

A driver who is at risk of a disqualification will always be given the chance to attend court. If he decides not to attend he will be informed of the date and time of the hearing and told that if he does drive on or after that date he may be guilty of driving while disqualified.

For most motoring offences that is right.

For drink driving and some other alcohol related offences it's 11 years on the licence and ignored by courts after 10.

Insurance companies usually go back 5 years for speeding points. If that is the case with your insurers you need to tell them the whole story ASAP.

They could void the insurance if they find out you haven't told the truth - even accidentally.

If I remember correctly, SWINTON no longer load for camera related speed offenses - as reported on a thread around here somewhere!

You can test online by applying for a quote, and fill in various penalties and see what difference it makes to the price. Directline gave me a £10 for an SP30 and £15 for a SP60.
I wonder if they load for having the wife and kids sat with you.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Not quite.

1) No court in the land is going to go by what is on your licence - they will have a DVLA printout.

2) Speeding points run from date of offence - so delaying the court appearance will not stop a totting up ban.

3) The point remain on the licence for 4 years form date of offence (for speeding). The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act is what stops an insurance company going back more than 5 years

I'm very surprised that the loading for SP60 is only £15 - since they wouldn't know what it is for. SP60 is an undefined speeding offence

The one I was in 10 months ago did! Either way, that is the reason they stay on your licence 12 months longer than they ought to.

But it would if the court were to go by what was on your licence (see above) AND you were to get your licence "cleaned" between your last offence the court appearance.

Isn't that what I said???

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Courts frequently do just exactly that.
Sometimes the DVLA are slow providing a printout. Sometimes we have someone who needs their case dealt with very quickly eg military personnel about to go overseas for a prolonged period, and there isn't time to get a DVLA printout.
In such cases we look at the licence and get the defendant to confirm on oath that it accurately reflects the number of points he has. A custodial sentence for PCJ awaits anyone who lies. And yes, we do check up.



As you say, speeding points count from date of offence.
Some offences count from date of conviction. eg any offence which results in a disqualification (not a totting ban) for the offence itself. No points would be imposed in those cases but the distinction between date of offence and date of conviction is important for things like driving while disqualified.

They've now done away with SP60 so will not apply in future. I tried getting mine changed, but they wouldn't have it.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.