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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 13:05 
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DVLA urged to consider ANPR
An NAO report has said the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency should consider using automatic number plate recognition to estimate the level of vehicle tax evasion

The report says that despite receiving many plaudits for its electronic vehicle licensing (EVL) system, which enables customers to pay vehicle excise duty (VED) and obtain a licence online, the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency has experienced a significant rise in tax evasion.

As a result, the DVLA has little prospect of achieving its evasion target of 2.5% by December this year, or meeting its related Gershon efficiency target to generate, through the reduction in evasion, an additional £70m in revenue each year by the end of March 2008.

According to the Department for Transport's (DfT) roadside survey in June 2006, VED evasion has risen to 5%, up from 3.6% the previous year. The survey also estimates that the proportion of unlicensed motorcyclists has increased to 37% from 30% in 2005.

Outlining the findings in its report published on 19 July 2007, the National Audit Office recommends that the DfT and DVLA "should consider alternative sources of evasion estimates, such as automatic number plate recognition systems, even if they are only partial and closely targeted".

The report qualifies this, however, by stating that the increase in VED evasion may partly be a result of people wanting to avoid congestion charging and being caught for crimes through ANPR enforcement. like SPECS?!? What about the rest?:scratchchin:

The report concedes that as ANPR is usually targeted at particular risks, the results would need expert statistical interpretation if such data were to be used to estimate the overall level of evasion across the country. But it also highlighted the advantages of ANPR data, describing it as "geographically pervasive, covers the whole period under review and scans far greater numbers of vehicles during the year than the roadside survey".

The NAO also says that the EVL scheme has failed to close the licensing gaps that existed in the old Post Office paper based system. The DVLA issues late licensing penalties to those who have not renewed their licence two months after the end of the previous expiry date. But customers who obtain a licence starting a month after their previous one has expired are not issued with a penalty notice.

According to the NAO, the situation reflects the length of time it used to take for the Post Office to notify licensing activity to the DVLA. As the EVL was designed as an electronic parallel to the Post Office system, the same licensing gaps may occur.

Some £450m (10%) of VED revenue was collected through the EVL system in 2006-07, its first full financial year, but the agency has neither estimated the VED revenue lost due to licensing gaps, nor analysed its impact on evasion rates.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 13:20 
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The misread rate (~10%) makes ANPR technology quite unsuitable for this sort of data gathering.

Suppose the ANPR detects 'ABC123' for which no record can be found. Is that a misread? A registered car? An unregistered car? A database error? A false registration? All current uses of ANPR HAVE TO disregard unrecognised registrations because otherwise they would do nothing but chase misreads.

How come the people making these sorts of proposals are numerically incompetent?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 13:27 
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SafeSpeed wrote:

How come the people making these sorts of proposals are numerically incompetent?


Theyve all been smoking dope matey ... :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 13:38 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
[...]How come the people making these sorts of proposals are numerically incompetent?
I don't think it's numerically incompetent, just incompetent, full stop.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 16:17 
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why dont the DVLA get their clampers to patrol outside job centres / probation offices, IMO most of the illegally parked vehicles around these centres are usually untaxed, any job seekers driving legal cars i would imagine usually park legal as they cannot afford the parking notice, it is the lower levels of society that do not give a toss, untaxed vehicles, uninsured responsible for petrolstaion drive offs, stealing cars for spare parts

hit them hard i say and keep hitting them


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 16:22 
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Why would the be driving to a job centre if they weren't looking for a job?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 16:46 
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Ziltro wrote:
Why would the be driving to a job centre if they weren't looking for a job?


they have got to sign on to claim the benefit, plus they need a car to carry the shoplifted goods home with them. i doubt if your average petty criminal would use public transport


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 16:59 
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According to the Department for Transport's (DfT) roadside survey in June 2006, VED evasion has risen to 5%, up from 3.6% the previous year.

Do they mean tax avoidance which is legal or tax evasion which is illegal or have they put them all together ? I am doing my bit for tax avoidance in sorning my car.

Seems they get it wrong then try something else and get it wrong then....etc etc

Why don't they put more traffic police on the roads and stop spending money on no hope ill thought out systems.

:) Richard


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 19:20 
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Sign on ?
How old are you ?
You only do it once now, after that they call you in for a chat occasionally, then you just send them a few jobs you've applied for and they forget you until your 6 months is up. The you go onto another benefit.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 00:38 
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but if you put VED on fuel you could stamp out evasion and shut down the ivory tower overlooking J46 on th m4


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 01:21 
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civil engineer wrote:
but if you put VED on fuel you could stamp out evasion and shut down the ivory tower overlooking J46 on th m4


.......and likewise for basic third party insurance..


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:55 
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jomukuk wrote:
Sign on ?
How old are you ?
You only do it once now, after that they call you in for a chat occasionally, then you just send them a few jobs you've applied for and they forget you until your 6 months is up. The you go onto another benefit.


Well that's certainly not what I had 18 months ago - it was necessary to sign on every fortnight for six month (to recieve JSA) and to continue to do so for NI credit)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:13 
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patdavies wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
Sign on ?
How old are you ?
You only do it once now, after that they call you in for a chat occasionally, then you just send them a few jobs you've applied for and they forget you until your 6 months is up. The you go onto another benefit.

Well that's certainly not what I had 18 months ago - it was necessary to sign on every fortnight for six month (to recieve JSA) and to continue to do so for NI credit)

I can confirm that was my experience too - and distinctly humiliating it all is.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:13 
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PeterE wrote:
I can confirm that was my experience too - and distinctly humiliating it all is.


Also matches up with my experience from mid-2005, and as you say it's quite unpleasant-if I hadn't needed to be signed on for my mortgage payment protection to pay out, I'd have happily stayed well clear...

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:36 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Suppose the ANPR detects 'ABC123' for which no record can be found. Is that a misread? A registered car? An unregistered car? A database error? A false registration? All current uses of ANPR HAVE TO disregard unrecognised registrations because otherwise they would do nothing but chase misreads.

My home town is Leicester, and I seem to remember that ABC123 was the reg. for the Lord Mayor's limousine!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 19:37 
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Draco wrote:
civil engineer wrote:
but if you put VED on fuel you could stamp out evasion and shut down the ivory tower overlooking J46 on th m4


.......and likewise for basic third party insurance..


none of this commen sense approach in brown's big government agenda. VED exists to keep DVLA in existence and labour voters in employment.

Come one GB prove me wrong


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 16:54 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
The misread rate (~10%) makes ANPR technology quite unsuitable for this sort of data gathering.

Suppose the ANPR detects 'ABC123' for which no record can be found. Is that a misread? A registered car? An unregistered car? A database error? A false registration? All current uses of ANPR HAVE TO disregard unrecognised registrations because otherwise they would do nothing but chase misreads.

How come the people making these sorts of proposals are numerically incompetent?



If the misread rate is that bad (and I'd be worried if it is. I have seen handwriting recognition systems with a better error rate than that!) then surely ANPR for any kind of enforcement is invalid.

Aha! but what about human checks? Well our office recently got a Con Charge fine that correctly stated the VRM, and the make/model (VW Bora). The offence? Unloading an HGV outside of loading hours, complete with pictures of a Luton box van being unloaded.

I don't want to be getting fines for my SORN'd car ABC123 just because the owner of ABC128 decided to use a motorway this week.

Not to mention cloned plates. ANPR is pretty worthless really.


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