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 Post subject: New Parking Laws!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 13:36 
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I cant see this elsewhere... if it's there, nuke this!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7184510.stm
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Parking rules 'could spell chaos'

Wheel clamping will be discouraged under new rules
New parking rules coming into force in England on 31 March will cause "some chaos" for drivers and see the number of fines soar, the AA has warned.

Under the new system, there will be different levels of fine depending on the offence and where it is committed.

In some areas, the penalty for the most serious breaches will rise by 20% and the body which adjudicates on fines says it is expecting more appeals.

But the government insists the system will be fairer and "more transparent".

In 2005, the most recent year for which figures are available, eight million parking tickets were issued in England and Wales, costing motorists hundred of millions of pounds.

Disabled bays

The Traffic Management Act will create five different penalty bands each incorporating a higher and lower level. Each local authority in England will be subject to one of the five bands.

The level of penalty imposed on drivers will depend on the offence in question.

Lesser offences will include overstaying in a pay-and-display bay.


It's a question of whether local authorities are geared up to do this
Paul Watters, The AA

More serious offences will include parking on double yellow lines or in a disabled bay.

The AA estimates that three quarters of all offences will fall into the serious category.

Paul Watters, from the organisation, told BBC Breakfast: "It's a question of whether local authorities are geared up to do this, whether they understand all the implications of the new rules, and whether motorists are going to find that authorities are acting fairly.

"So it is quite a big change from one piece of legislation to the next.

"There is a potential for some chaos, as authorities are going to have to run two systems together."

NEW PARKING RULES
Local authorities outside London can issue fines by post if there is camera evidence
Adjudicators given more powers to cancel fines in mitigating circumstances
Increased discount period for fines sent by post - 21 days instead of 14
Higher penalties for more serious offences, but smaller fines for less serious ones
Quicker clamping and removal times
Source: Department for Transport

For the first time, councils outside London will be able to issue fines by post using CCTV evidence.

They will also be able to issue a penalty even when a motorist has driven away before a ticket can be physically placed on their car.


Transport Minister Rosie Winterton said this was vital because "some people will drive away very quickly if they see a parking attendant approaching".

"That can be dangerous for other drivers and it can be dangerous for pedestrians," Ms Winterton said.

"So we'll be allowing traffic wardens to issue tickets even if somebody is in the process of driving away and that's a real safety issue."

Right to appeal

Councils will also be able to penalise actions such as parking next to a dropped kerb or parking too far away from the kerb.


Very few motorists appear to realise they can appeal at all
Caroline Sheppard
National Parking Adjudication Service

The Department for Transport says there will be "quicker clamping and removal times for persistent evaders", but "wheel clamping will otherwise be discouraged".

Nevertheless, the National Parking Adjudication Service expects its workload to increase.

Chief adjudicator Caroline Sheppard said: "We're preparing to deal with more appeals, but the current problem with the appeal system is that very few motorists appear to realise they can appeal at all.

"Obviously, we will be embarking on a better public relations exercise in order to inform motorists, with the new measures, that they do have a right to appeal."

Outside London, the toughest fine, currently £60, will rise to £70 for the most serious offences, but will fall to £50 for less serious ones.

In London, the highest level of fine has risen from £100 to £120, with lesser offences dropping to £80.

From 31 March, the time limit for paying tickets by post will increase from 14 days to 21.

Ms Winterton has said the changes will make fines "more transparent and consistent" and help to ensure those issued are "fair and justified".

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 13:43 
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Forget all these damned parking laws, lets all just park wherever the hell we like.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 13:55 
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The new law just brings them inline with the private parking companies sending out fines by post regardless.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 13:59 
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The antidote is here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?aut ... icle&id=56

Hopefully he'll update it :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 15:15 
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Rigpig wrote:
Forget all these damned parking laws, lets all just park wherever the hell we like.


That happend in St Albans for a while, council forget to employ a parking contractor, and there was no enforcement for a few weeks.

Total chaos in the town centre.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 16:57 
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I paid to park on a meter in Southport, walked a few hunded yards to Dixons, and made a purchase, walked back, and found I had a penalty which indicated I had been 5 minutes over the time when it was issued. I saw no warden yet the clock showed I was 8 minutes over time by the time I reached my vehicle! :o

There was no way it had taken that long to shop, and the time on the shop receipt showed when I had set off back, so I double checked the clock - which was reading the correct time.
However the machine had been opened and emptied - presumably while I was parked, so I can only assume the clock had been wrong, but had been put right!
There is NO way you can fight this sort of behaviour, and it is simply all about money. I had the last laugh though, when the same council asked me to produce a sign for them at a later date for a civic occasion!!
My price reflected the cost of parking in the town and having money extorted!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 17:00 
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weepej wrote:
Rigpig wrote:
Forget all these damned parking laws, lets all just park wherever the hell we like.


That happend in St Albans for a while, council forget to employ a parking contractor, and there was no enforcement for a few weeks.

Total chaos in the town centre.


Same thing in Tewksbury. Deliveries couldn't be made and folks were up in arms, well all but the selfish twats who thought the lack of any enforcement meant they could do what the hell they liked.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 17:10 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
I paid to park on a meter in Southport, walked a few hunded yards to Dixons, and made a purchase


Ah well, there's where it all started to go wrong :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 18:12 
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welcome to Bedford. The town where the green-hats hide behind walls and wait until you've gone to GET a ticket, then run out and stick a penalty notice on your w/screen. Coincidentally, the nearest machine always seem to be suffering from "chewing gum vandals".

They also hide in passageways near to popular shops with no parking.

And the towns cctv system is used to target them onto vehicles where the driver has walked away....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 19:13 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
I had the last laugh though, when the same council asked me to produce a sign for them at a later date for a civic occasion!!
My price reflected the cost of parking in the town and having money extorted!!


Wow, you really showed them eh!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 19:27 
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Wow, they are really trying to londonise the country. How horrible.

Do remember that if we have to obey their laws, so do they. And they often get things wrong as it is.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 22:54 
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Rigpig wrote:
Forget all these damned parking laws, lets all just park wherever the hell we like.

So you see nothing wrong with the primary goal of enforcement being revenue-raising rather than keeping the roads clear? Nothing wrong with parking attendants being given targets? Nothing wrong with councils being able to lay down unnecessary yellow lines etc just so that they can give tickets to people who park on them?

Was there anarchy when the police used to enforce parking restrictions? Is there anarchy in the areas where police continue to do so?

And is it right that the average parking transgression in many places attracts a greater penalty than the average shoplifting offence?

Also why shouldn't discretion be applied with parking offences/contraventions? If someone's back bumper overhangs a double yellow line by a few centimetres, that would never get a ticket from the police, because it would never cause a problem. It would get one from a council parking attendant every time. One of them must be wrong, and I think I know which.

Also I hope people realise that tickets by CCTV will mean that anyone stopping on a double yellow line on a quiet road for a couple of minutes, say to read a map, or to prepare to reverse around a corner to practise for their driving test, will be stung.

No way will these changes be a good thing for any driver.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 23:26 
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bombus wrote:
Rigpig wrote:
Forget all these damned parking laws, lets all just park wherever the hell we like.

So you see nothing wrong with the primary goal of enforcement being revenue-raising rather than keeping the roads clear? Nothing wrong with parking attendants being given targets? Nothing wrong with councils being able to lay down unnecessary yellow lines etc just so that they can give tickets to people who park on them?


Logical fallacy alert Bombus, you are begging the question. You assume that, just because you believe those things to be true, that I do to.
E.g. I see plenty wrong with parking enforcement being about revenue raising but I don't actually believe that this is the primary motive behind parking restrictions.
But, as long as people keep parking illegally and being fined, then I suppose some will choose to believe its all about revenue particularly if they happen to think that their little indiscretion could have been overlooked.

Would it be better do you think if parking restrictions were simply lifted altogether? Would our motoring lives be easier or more difficult do you think?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 23:47 
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I have thought of another problem...

Technically you have to read the restriction sign before stopping. These signs are at 90° to the road and can include dates, times and zone letters/numbers and can have multiple restrictions listed. You have to read and understand it all and know what the current date and time is before stopping.

So you stop for a moment to read the sign, you find that they haven't allowed you to park there then and drive off to find somewhere else.
It used to be that nothing would happen. Now they have allowed themselves to make money from you in this situation, if the vultures see you or one of the millions of spy cameras in this country is watching.

Rigpig wrote:
E.g. I see plenty wrong with parking enforcement being about revenue raising but I don't actually believe that this is the primary motive behind parking restrictions.

Have you experienced decriminalised parking enforcement?
Council gets DPE, parking restrictions start to spread like a virus. They install them even if the residents say no.

I believe that even without any of the restrictions based on lines or signs it is always illegal to park dangerously or inconsiderately. We don't need the councils meddling.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 00:32 
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Rigpig wrote:
bombus wrote:
Rigpig wrote:
Forget all these damned parking laws, lets all just park wherever the hell we like.

So you see nothing wrong with the primary goal of enforcement being revenue-raising rather than keeping the roads clear? Nothing wrong with parking attendants being given targets? Nothing wrong with councils being able to lay down unnecessary yellow lines etc just so that they can give tickets to people who park on them?


Logical fallacy alert Bombus, you are begging the question. You assume that, just because you believe those things to be true, that I do to.

Well I didn't exactly assume, I asked. ;)

Rigpig wrote:
E.g. I see plenty wrong with parking enforcement being about revenue raising but I don't actually believe that this is the primary motive behind parking restrictions.

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I concur with what Ziltro says about DPE. Also, where there's DPE, there's a "contractor" such as NCP. Why do you suppose they're there, and try to issue as many tickets as possible?

Rigpig wrote:
But, as long as people keep parking illegally and being fined, then I suppose some will choose to believe its all about revenue particularly if they happen to think that their little indiscretion could have been overlooked.

If you were a cash-strapped council (as many seem to be), and you were already getting flack about high council tax, and you had DPE at your disposal, wouldn't you look upon it as a potential goldmine?

And some parking indiscretions should jolly well be overlooked, e.g. someone's bumper just overhanging a double yellow line (and no, I've never been done for that). They always were in the past and they should still be. It's quite clearly common sense.

Rigpig wrote:
Would it be better do you think if parking restrictions were simply lifted altogether? Would our motoring lives be easier or more difficult do you think?

I think we should go back to the police enforcing them, and having more police around, both of which used to be the case, and that seemed to work fine.

Where we have DPE, discretion goes out of the window, and absolutely no-one benefits from that except councils, their contractors, and silly spiteful little car-haters. We should be trying to achieve clear roads with as few tickets as possible, and surely any motorist would agree with that. DPE is about issuing as many tickets as possible. Hence stories about elderly couples getting tickets because they've pulled over due to the driver getting a heart attack (and no, I'm not making it up). You never used to hear about things like that. A policeman would have helped in that situation instead of handing out a ticket. DPE is bad, bad, bad if you're a driver. It's already gone too far and the gravy train is now speeding up and getting longer. Choo bloody choo.

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"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 09:14 
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Another problem with camera enforced yellow lines is that If I park using a blue badge, I could spend half my life defending parking fines.

90% of our blue badge parking is done in a non tax exempt vehicle.

How can they prove that the parked car was not picking up or dropping a disabled person.

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 Post subject: Be scared.......
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:29 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:50 
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The Council's are using the selfishness of car owners to justify ever more Draconian parking rules.

Friends in Reading and Richmond live in parking permit hell thanks to commuters and big offices with inadequate parking. In Richmond you have show the authorities that the car in question is registered to your address to get it a permit - such was the cunning and determination of commuters from out of the area.

So as usual we have, to a degree, been the authors of our own misfortune, thanks to the lazy and self-centred.

Which isn't to excuse Councils who have seized on a genuine problem and found a way of making money from it. Whether the new rules actually help the residents is a mere incidental.

Barkstar

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:55 
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Barkstar wrote:
Whether the new rules actually help the residents is a mere incidental.



Who cares about the residents ?
They still pay their council tax, and now the parking tax.
Win, win.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:59 
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Ziltro wrote:
So you stop for a moment to read the sign, you find that they haven't allowed you to park there then and drive off to find somewhere else.
It used to be that nothing would happen. Now they have allowed themselves to make money from you in this situation, if the vultures see you or one of the millions of spy cameras in this country is watching.


I'm pretty sure they have to show the driver left the car or intended to wait in the case of double yellows, i.e. that it was actually "parked" with the intention of leaving it there.

Except on red routes of course.


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