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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 17:26 
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Pie boss jailed for speeding ticket scam

The 'face' of gourmet pies advertised on TV shopping channels has been jailed for cheating justice by having other people take his penalty points for speeding convictions.

Henry Toms, the 71-year-old chairman of Lime Tree Pantry pies of Nottingham was jailed for a month on Monday and banned from driving for six months.

Luton Crown Court heard how twice in 2005 his BMW was caught on camera speeding and he was asked to name the driver on a notice of intended prosecution.

On one occasion a female employee said she picked up his points because she feared the business could be affected if he lost his licence, said prosecutor Bill McGivern.

Another time he asked his reluctant wife to shoulder the blame.

He would have got away with the scam but his employee, Jayne Dawes, began working as a civilian with Nottinghamshire Police and realised she had done something seriously wrong and confessed, said the prosecutor.

Toms, a Rotarian, who regularly appears on QVC extolling the virtues of the meat and fruit pies, told a Judge: "I am the face of Lime Tree on television. It is a role only one person can do. The shopping channels account for a third of our business.

"I feel really stupid about what I have done."

Mrs Dawes, 51 who lost her police job after she confessed, told police she was not paid to take his points but she felt some of the workforce would face redundancy if he lost his licence. She took his three points and he paid the fine.

Mr McGivern said the BMW was doing 43mph in a 30mph area on the A421 at Great Barford on November 27 2005. The same car was also clocked doing 85mph on the A1 - in a 70mph zone, in August 2005.

When arrested and interviewed last September, he said he had six points on his licence and asked his wife to say she was driving. He said Mrs Dawes had volunteered when she became aware of his predicament.

Jennifer Carter- Manning, defending Mrs Dawes, said: "It is an unusual case. It was only by chance that she was speaking to a traffic officer who explained the lengths some people will go to to avoid a speeding conviction and how seriously the courts views those who passed their points to someone else. She spoke to her sergeant the following day. She has learned an extremely painful lesson."

Steven Wetton, for Toms, said: "If he is jailed his business will suffer disproportionately for the offence he has committed."

Judge Richard Foster told Toms: "No matter what car you drive or what your position is in your business, as far as I am concerned offences of this nature always give rise to a custodial sentence. You involved others and were in a position of authority."

Toms, of Shepherds Lane, Thoresby Park, Notts, pleaded guilty to conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and perverting the course of justice.

Mrs Dawes, of High Street, Edwinstowe, Notts, pleaded guilty to conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. She was given a 12-month community order with a month-long nighttime curfew.

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 17:42 
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I can't bring myself to either condone or condemn the decision to jail this chap.
I do however feel that there must still be a huge number of people who would be tempted to try and pass on speeding ticket penalty points to a relative, friend or colleague because they believe it to be a trivial offence and that they will get away with it. The dim view that courts take of this sort of thing is not properly communicated to the public IMHO, although benefit fraud ads are commonplace on TV.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 17:54 
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How would you feel if you were laid off because your boss was jailed for PTCJ?

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 17:56 
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I don't condone the offence but I'm not sure jail is an appropriate penalty for this case of PTCOJ. I thought that the penalty for PTCOJ was supposed to relate to the seriousness of the offence which it sought to conceal.

Also, the reward for the honesty of the employee who left to join the police will encourage others to do the same - not. I thought whistle blowers were protected in some way.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 17:58 
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anton wrote:
How would you feel if you were laid off because your boss was jailed for PTCJ?


Oh I'd be over the moon of course :?

Whatever, I don't know whether I'd aim my ire at him for being an idiot, or the court for failing to consider my position.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 17:56 
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How sad that such an initial pitifull "offence" should proceed all the way to jail terms and job losses.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 19:26 
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hairyben wrote:
How sad that such an initial pitifull "offence" should proceed all the way to jail terms and job losses.

Indeed, you don't get much more jail time for killing someone while pi$$ed up behind the wheel.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 20:47 
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Gixxer wrote:
hairyben wrote:
How sad that such an initial pitifull "offence" should proceed all the way to jail terms and job losses.

Indeed, you don't get much more jail time for killing someone while pi$$ed up behind the wheel.


He's not been jailed for speeding, he's been jailed for perverting the course of justice, quite a serious thing to do.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 20:57 
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weepej wrote:
He's not been jailed for speeding, he's been jailed for perverting the course of justice, quite a serious thing to do.

Getting someone to take points is hardly in the realms of organised crime, and it sure as shit isn't anywhere near as serious as killing someone while drunk behind the wheel.

While I accept that PTCOJ is not acceptable, let's get real here and look at what real harm has actually been done.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 22:30 
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weepej wrote:
Gixxer wrote:
hairyben wrote:
How sad that such an initial pitifull "offence" should proceed all the way to jail terms and job losses.

Indeed, you don't get much more jail time for killing someone while pi$$ed up behind the wheel.


He's not been jailed for speeding, he's been jailed for perverting the course of justice, quite a serious thing to do.


I wouldn't call it serious.

He's done for 85 in 70 - something I'd say a majority of motorists have done, something which SHOULDNT be considered an offence at all (if conditions were ok, of course), shouldn't result in financial hardship or the threat of job losses. He then gets someone to take the points for this non-offence and it's considered serious. It's not serious, there shouldn't have been an issue in the first place.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 19:15 
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weepej wrote:
Gixxer wrote:
hairyben wrote:
How sad that such an initial pitifull "offence" should proceed all the way to jail terms and job losses.

Indeed, you don't get much more jail time for killing someone while pi$$ed up behind the wheel.


He's not been jailed for speeding, he's been jailed for perverting the course of justice, quite a serious thing to do.


Of course, and I agree it's an offence that should be taken seriously, but what should also be taken more seriously is that when you criminalise people through sloppy careless & vindictive policy you shouldn't be suprised if they behave like criminals. Psychologically, the first "crime" is the biggest step, further crimes, no matter how much more serious are usually smaller steps, once you've convinced someone they're a criminal. So perhaps we should not be so willing to criminalise people for menail offences, because you reap what you sow.

Gixxer, isn't your sig missing the line "look at the road ahead instead of fixating on the speedo and you won't hit me at all?"

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 19:51 
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mmltonge wrote:
I wouldn't call it serious.

He's done for 85 in 70 - something I'd say a majority of motorists have done, something which SHOULDNT be considered an offence at all (if conditions were ok, of course), shouldn't result in financial hardship or the threat of job losses. He then gets someone to take the points for this non-offence and it's considered serious. It's not serious, there shouldn't have been an issue in the first place.


You wouldn't call it serious? <boggle>

Whether doing 85 in a 70 should or should not be an offence is one matter. It IS an offence and we all know that it is.
Treading a path with the intent of perverting the course of justice as a result of a misplaced belief about the law one has broken is quite another.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 09:49 
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He's not been jailed for speeding, he's been jailed for perverting the course of justice, quite a serious thing to do.


Weepej is quite correct, PTCOJ is a serious offence, speeding is not. However the current drive for automated enforcement actively encourages such behaviour. Thus I fail to see how more and more cameras have anything to do with road safety.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 18:52 
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But SCPs pervert the course of justice routinely; they allow cases to goto court even when they know that certain stretches of road are unenforceable and equipment faulty; The police themselves are far worse than those such as this chap but they have a license to do it.


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