Safe Speed Forums

I was driving behind a lorry today which had a very large crane on the back, I can't remember what they're called in the trade but I think they carry and unload building materials.

However, this one was empty and, whilst the driver was not reckless, he easily cruised at an indicated 35 (on my speedo) and got up to that speed quite quickly. I guess there must be a beast of an engine in it.

We were driving down a single carriageway 30 limit road and, as my turnoff to the left was coming up, I moved slightly in that direction and I saw a small car in that road pull out straight in front of the lorry and get hit down the offside from the end the the drivers door backwards.

I stopped and went to the car which had been spun across the road and the rather elderly lady driver didn't appear to be that hurt, although I called an ambulance and she was taken to hospital. I waited with her for the ambulance and, while we were chatting, it became clear that she saw the lorry, saw it was a large vehicle and sort of assumed it must have been going slowly, so just pulled out.

Is this sort of expectation common? It had never occurred to me before. Is it a function of age?

I found myself expecting a lorry to be going slower than it was once when I was pulling on to a dual carriageway. Fortunately I looked more than once, and the lorry driver changed lanes to the right as well so all was well.

Apparently this one had no speed limiter. Couldn't catch the thing!

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Andrew.

People take risks.

"I can easily overtake that motorbike"
"I can easily beat that train to the crossing"
"I can easily cross before that lorry reaches the junction"
"I can easily..."

But eventually, sooner or later, their luck runs out.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

The generic name for them is Haibs but that's a bit like saying that a dyson is a hoover.... The technical name is a lorry loader, or lorry loading crane.

The smaller ones are used for loading and unloading building materials, but the larger ones can be used for pretty much anything, from container handling, to plant machinery and anything else you can imagine wanting to lift on and off a lorry.

If it was very large then there's every chance it was a Palfinger - was it orange? It would have said something like PK27002 on it if it was.

Anyway.. anorak mode off..

This sort of incident just goes to show that people don't use judgement and just 'assume' that a particular vehicle will behave in a particular way. Speed limiters asside, a vehicle that is designed to lug 26tonnes (how many axles did the truck have?) up to 56mph up a hill will have quite a bit of power. You're talking AT LEAST 300bph depending on the truck spec and GVW - the most powerful rigids are are be 400+bhp, and MAN recently released a tractor unit with something stupid like 690bhp!!! Empty, with the crane, the vehicle probably weighs in at something like 15 tonnes tops, so you get the idea.

I'm glad the old dear wan't hurt, but it doesn't bear thinking about the outcome if it'd been a bike that she'd 'assumed' the speed of, rather than a naffing great truck...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Big=slow is a common misconception, evan when the things barrelling towards one at a rate of knots.

My last "van", which was in fact a mitsubishi delica (somewhat imposing and tall offroad people carrier) has a uk owners club/forum where everyone speaks of the invisible button to turn off the cloaking device. My guess is most of them are previously car drivers who don't have experience of peoples slow expectations of larger vehicles.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Vans are even more of a conundrum, since one has no way of telling whether or not they are laden.

The sensible driver will always recall the maxim: "If you don't know don't go" (the know being emboldened to remind that it is 100% certainty, not experiential assumption, that is the test)

I had a woman once start a 3 point turn from a parking space I tea boned her and pushed her car 2 foot sideways. She told the police
a:i was speeding (so she saw me and still pulled out)
B: she thought she had given me enough room to stop(who the hell was she i had the right of way)
Both of which were untrue.
Some people just make silly mistakes

Well you can look at the rear wheels especially and see if they are looking 'a bit or a lot 'squashed' if they are 'tall' then it is lightly or un-laden. Plus to some degree the manner in which it is driven will also be a clue. The front wheels can tell you as well but are generally less effected (engine weight etc).
The way the van corners and the effect on the suspension will help you identify too if it is laden a lot or not much or potentially none.

I hope that the lorry driver was also OK - it can be quite a shock. He could also have eased off the gas to 'see' if she was going and as soon as he observed that she was a toot and a pull out too (which he may have done - by the sound of the side swipe description). There is no mention of a toot so I assume that non occurred.



Drivers should be reminded that they should never assume anything ... I am all for the return of *really good* public info films ... (within obvious common-sense things). e.g. you do not expect that lamp-post to fall over right in front of you - the probabilities are next to nil.
I would love Safe Speed to do some - and place them on You Tube for starters.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I'd be up for that!

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

What topic would you like to tackle first ?

(Sorry for my previous post being a little too 'preachy', didn't mean it to sound like that - thoroughly agree with the assumption comment posted btw)

?Hazards -?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I wouldn't say it was preachy... it's easy, when making a point in web forums with the lack of acknowledgement of understanding from your audience, to overstate yourself... and to wonder if you've stated enough... I'm sure some of my posts in certain threads convey someone with an air of moral supremacy.

You perhaps miss a trick with the van loading though... suspension can be rated to carry heavy loads, plus often van drivers may not have heavy loads but lots of unsecured stuff in the back they don't want flying around, so will be reluctant to brake hard untill it's absolutely nessecary...

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Hmm.. where to start?

How about something close to this topic? LOOK and judge approach speed rather than 'assuming', and "if you don't know, don't go". Works for any vehicle in any situation!

I think if you're going to make the films work they have to be (probably overly) simplistic - most people don't want to think, they want to be told, so if you're too subtle, or try to put too much into each film you're going to lose out.

Edit: In fact, I recon you want to sort out the theme and most of the 'script' for the whole set before you start in order to avoid repetition.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Yep absolutely, the script and flow of the film are of paramount importance, along with the script and voice-over, plus the music. Happily I have many contacts in this department !
Most animations aim for very specific audiences and it is often adults that can equally (if not more so) enjoy the simple films.

One film one theme, then add similar 'threads' always tends to work well.

Make it FUNNY, and everyone will not only remember it but, will want to link to them - I wonder if I can interest Tesco Insurance - they used Paul for LOTS of radio shows.... I wonder if I can find their contact number ....
have to look into this .... there's a specific film cameraman who shot Paul quite a bit, and he's freelance too. But before we go major production, I was thinking of a simple self filmed, start.... and build from there.

So if we choose (this sort of thing) :
anticipate (opp to don't assume -keeping it on the positive side than the negative one), prepare, act to altering conditions, space to react and use in emergencies if necessary. Then a big smile from the 'good' driver and a friendly 'nod' (in surprise and pleasure' from the 'not so good driver).
From this we have immdiately got the two characters :
The 'thinking person' and the 'unthinking person' they can be dressed in a typical top to help the identification for the 'whole series ...'

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Good point - I guess I will get better !



But I suspect that they would be braking more gently and more often if that was the case as if they braked harder, later then it would all go flying which is what they want to aviod IF they care at all
The suspension is interesting as even with big lorries you can usually gage if they are probably a bit laden, pretty laden and very laden - if it ias not obvious of course. The suspension I agree will be set up for heavy so low loads or light loads may not 'be that well indicated' other than driving behaviours.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I wouldn't describe the Delica as imposing, personally I find the likes of the Zafira or VW Toerag more imposing, basically if you don't know what the Delica is (basically a Pajero/Shogun that happens to look like a middle-age-dad-mobile) it's easy to ignore or assume that it's going to be driven slowly by a muppet with 7 screaming little brats in the back.

well I personally wouldn't say it was particulrly imposing either, but bearing mind it's a 4x4 (audience boo's and jeers) that I looked down on range rovers from, with the front bumper & nudge bars at eye level to the common car, many would say otherwise. And as people carriers go, it's about the least dadsy out there.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

I thought those bars were an optional accessory? I've seen plenty without them. They seem like fun machines, though I think I'd rather have a Mazda Bongo van with the RWD 2.5l V6.

The other problem with the Delica is some people mistake them for Bedford Rascals which again would make it safe to pull out

If someone mistakes it for a bedford rascal they shouldn't be driving. bars are standard for the 4x4's. untill the '98 facelift. Plus you can have a 3.0 V6, and all have superselect- RWD to 4WD on the fly.

The mazda looks gangly, oddly proportioned. And it's probably slower than my 3.0 TDI vito anyway.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

A slight aside, on the truck topic - mentioned by a friend who used to deliver skips .Skip drivers have one hate - the way that skips are /have to be fixed on the rear , well more just held by the chain - so that if full braking force is used the skip might become an unguided missile, and the cab it's target.So they try to drive so as not to use the brakes a lot , until their pet fear materialises - someone pulling out without warning - so it's either put fear into the car/hit it or get hit by a skip.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Similar vein, but much worse is steel piping / bar stock. No matter how well you secure it, under heavy braking it is highly likely to shoot forwards off the bed and through the back of the cab...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.