Safe Speed Forums

Folks,

What do people think about this issue, which has been flagged up in the 'middle lane' thread?

I was once driving home from work, and thinking about some work thing and I suddenly realised that I was at my front door. I had absolutely no memory whatsoever of driving nearly five miles. It was very scary.

Has this happened to you? How do you spot if another driver is slipping away?

C.

I'd like to make a distinction between 'automatic pilot' and 'daydreaming'

I would suggest that what you have described i automatic pilot whereas dawdling in the middle lane unaware of whats going on around you is day dreaming.

I think you can drive quite safely on automatic pilot, you may not be fully aware of where you are geographically...eg is it swindon or reading but would be quite aware of your immediate surroundings, what lane, what speed, hazards etc.

Can't say I've ever done it to the extent of driving for 5 miles and not realising, but it has happened momentarily whereby I have realised that I don't know exactly what is around me as much as I would like to. For example, a car has appeared behind me and I realise that I obviously haven't checked the space around me recently.

More commonly for me, is that I set off on a regular route and then realise I'm not going to where I normally go and I've taken the wrong turn because I'm on "auto-route pilot". Not dangerous in itself, but I imagine it happens to some people who then take evasive action / bizarre moves to correct the mistake.

CE,

If I was behind a driver who didn't know which town they were in, I would keep a very safe distance!

C.

How would you know?

_________________
Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Freddie,

What you describe is at one end of the scale. At the other end of the scale is someone who is going through a messy divorce and is reliving the courtroom scene in their head whilst driving home.

The body is driving and the mind is temporarily absent. My point is that this is an extremely dangerous situation and is virtually undetectable by objective means. It must be a huge contributing factor in accidents.

C.

PS - I have heard of a person defending themselves on a speeding charge by saying that they were 'distracted'!

toltec,

You make my point for me.

C.

Thats just being flippant.

The m4 between swindon and reading is featureless. Half the time I haven't got a clue where I am, similarly on the m5 south of bristol. But I do very much know where I am in relation to the road and other vehicles.

I think Paul referred to this as the 'lizard brain', an ability to conduct certain tasks almost by instinct.

Happens to me quite a few times. I do a lot of long distance motorway work so in some aspects I think it's actually necessary.

My personal theory is that it's not a case of simply not paying attention, more a case of the mind not bothering to store that information for later recall since really what's the point in remembering 200 miles of uneventful night-time M6? ie. I believe I'm awake and functioning normally at the time, just choosing not to remember afterwards.

If this were not the case I'd probably be dead or hospitalised by now as there have been plenty of times where stupid things have happened on long trips, requiring me to do something, avoid something, or just get pissed off at somebody for tailgating, basically something noteable.

I refuse to believe that it's spacing out and autopiloting simply because if that were the case I must have extremely good luck. It's simply an extreme case of how people only tend to remember the bad things.

Thats why I drew the distinction between auto pilot (which I can subscribe to) and day dreaming

My point is that it's not auto pilot at all. At the time you're fully aware and in control, not switched off in any form, you just forget about what happened more than a few seconds ago, and only start keeping a record again should anything interesting happen.

Only once in my life have I ever been in the 'automatic pilot/daydream' situation, (I think). From my experience, I see how it can happen.

After a traumatic 2 years trying for a baby with my wife, we went to an IVF clinic. I remember to this day, hearing, in the clinic consulting room, the terrific news that she was pregnant. IVF is a bit like going into a bookmakers, and putting £2500 on a horse, to win at 5:1 !

To this day, I can remember every detail of that meeting in the IVF clinic as if it were yesterday. That day I drove home in what I can only call a 'daze'. I drove the car perfectly well, and we arrived home without any incident at all, even slight, but my mind was definitely NOT on the driving. Certainly I can remember nothing of the journey home, except that it was mostly on the M6 ! Today the baby, (our daughter), is 17 and about to start driving lessons !

_________________
Good manners maketh a good motorist

Theres something called stress imprinting...it works in the same way as we all know where we were when the palnes hit the WTC. A minor event is remember because its linked to a very significant one. Its supposedly why 'team building' in the welsh mountains works. Maybe this is the sort of thing you're describing.

I also think there is a kind of 'auto pilot' whereby things are so familiar that you can process them at a lower level of brain power. Thats not to say you're not concentrating but that you're literally on auto pilot. You still know whats going on and can react as appropriate.

The day dreaming is when you're simply out of the room.

is or are auto pilot and lizard brian the same thing?

I didn't fully understand Pauls Lizard Brain thing, but sort of understood it was an automatic responce where you didn't have to think you just did and because you were well trained the "just did" bit was the right course of action.

As for day dreaming, some of my best ideas come when I am miles away.

Lum,

Maybe this is why we are expected to give a continual commentary on road driving conditions in advanced driver training, because we are expected to maintain this level of attention and awareness at all times while on the road.

Auto pilot driving falls rather short of this, as the 'anything interesting' is most likely to be a road accident.

e.

Said before in my explanation of COAST - that if we concentrate on "concentating" - then we are not concentrating!


Concentration then - has to be the sort of "relaxed concentration" we apply when we are watching the denouement of a film etc. Alert to the situation - but with the mechanical subconscious of trained mechanical behaviour working with the signals from the "aware" brain. (This is deep - I once attended a lecture on this years ago .. and again it seems I recall th introduction and the conclusion .. but not as much as how we reached this point... which again is part of how we learn an retain salient details. apparently)


However, most accidents occur close to home.. or on routes travelled each day at same times as routines .. when the alert brain will "switch to subconcious rote" because of the "familiarity" and this is part of Paul's "lizard brain" discussion and its impact on overall driving standards. .

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I go out of my way to try to remember my drives to and from work - about 19 miles each way.
The only way I can do this without fail is by never taking the same route twice, while also slightly varying the times that I leave to go to work or back home. Alternaltely, I'll try to get an errand run in between. Still, from time to time, I'll deliberately decide to stop by the pharmacy on my way home / to work, get in the car, arrive at work / home ... I can't remember whether I forget more errands before work, or before getting home?:stupidme:

Much more often, I will remember a particularly interesting, non-regularly scheduled customer, and where I picked them up and / or dropped them off, but I won't be able to recall what we spoke of, or which route I chose.

The only trips I can recall almost perfectly and completely are the ones where there was some sort of reward dependent on exceptional performance - be it speed, exceptionally smooth sailing, creative routing, a successful effort at achieving noteworthy fuel mileage.
If I fail, or give up, the memory[s] go unrecorded / badly filed / forgotten.
This makes me think that the emotional state has primary influence in deciding what is noteworthy, and how those notes get 'jotted down'.

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

Rush,

Economy driving focusses the mind. Also a Road Angel and an obsession with speed cameras helps one to stay awake.

C.

Hypermiling is one way to focus. So is attempting to maintain an average traffic speed above the posted 'limit' for an hour or more.
Neither should be tried by the inexperienced, nor can such efforts succeed for long in hostile driving environments.

I had to teach myself to drive unconsciously, while maintaining sufficient consciousness to modify my driving to
1) look for addresses or clients
2) be on either side of a deadline
3) determine / use alternate routes
4) add stops (and I don't just have problems with stops that I add, either)

It is a constant, maintenance activity.

The mere thought of my having any sort of obsession with speed cameras scares me; I was a vandal in my early teens, and I do wonder if some sort of 'revolutionary' behavior of sufficient mass would fix the speed camera problem? I suspect it would make me sleepless, to say the least ...

What's a Road Angel?

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

I have only had this happen to me once (about 17 years ago) and it scared the crap out of me.

I recall driving down my road (a cul de sac) to a T junction. Then turning left toward a staggered cross roads 25yds away.

The next thing I remember is pulling up to a T junction onto a 40mph road.

The journey between my road and the 40 is about 3/4 of a mile of residential 30mph roads. In that distance I had negotiated the staggered cross roads, a T junction and driven past a parade of shops. None of which I remembered.

It shocked me so much I actually pulled over and stopped for about 10 minutes. It taught me a valuable lesson and I have never repeated it.

What caused it I am not sure but I could take a guess. I may have been destination fixated. Thinking about where I was going to, not what I was doing.


A Road Angel is a gps speed camera and accident black spot warning device here in the UK