Safe Speed Forums

SafeSpeedv2 wrote: (from another topic)
In a discussion about driving behaviour, I diverted off onto a new method ... and so have moved that topic sidetrack here ....

when turning right off a main road - into a clearly visible right turn; rather than stop traffic behind you, and when the oncoming lane is clear, you ;
...indicating you pull into the oncoming lane, and do your final braking in that lane, before you do the right turn.
It works beautifully. As you are braking, no one confuses any action, for an overtake, and it prevents the main road (or anyone) from any holdups by your actions, and with the oncoming lane and R turn lane, (both) clear, it is totally safe.
Any following lorries especially love it of course



No, never happens, because when I say it is clear - this says it is clear, this requires you to choose when you decide to use this technique. The side road that we are turning into is totally clear - meaning visually clear for us to be absolutely 100% sure, that the road is clear right now, and will remain clear, during the necessary next time frame, to enable the completed manoeuvre safely. (Of course) In other words not all side roads are suitable.


No

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Been doing that for years. As you say, truckers are especially appreciative!

Never seen that done, never thought of it, never even heard of it until now. I can see how it would be helpful, especially for the truckers.

My main worry, if I tried it, would be getting pulled over (eg. if one of the following cars was an unmarked police car) and given a bollocking by a BIB who also had no idea what this technique was about.

I'm sure In Gear knows about it and would be fine with it, but the rest of them I doubt very much.

Paul & I have done it for years and years and especially up here ...

It has 'caught on' as other people can see the advantages, and in the right environment.

'Down South' may often be too busy, but on recent trips South, I, have had the opportunity to use it, from time to time.

I have never seen it in any advanced driving book ... something Paul & I 'did' to help traffic flow after analysing things to help others ....

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

whats an empty road?
good visibility? is that through the windows of the corner shop?

Aha, Cheers for the explanation.

Might come in handy if I ever get the chance to drive well away from the congested south .

sounds like a fairly rare opportunity to do this.. in most parts... needs quite a fortuitous combination of traffic and visibility.

and even then i don't entirely like the idea.

I'd be interested to know of this is actually legal, or could be construed as dangerous driving, it certainly doesn't sit with 'predicatable behaviour', and if somebody rocks up in the road you're turning right into and sticks their nose out you're in serious trouble.

Also, the guy behind shouldn't pass you or they could get done for dangerous driving, technically an undertake right?

Well interesting points, but, you are still, err wrong because, when I say 'Clear' side road it is clear - that means that as you look down the side road, to which you are going to turn into, it is empty, not probably, maybe, or only one car, but TOTALLY, EMPTY by visual clarity.
So you cannot ever have a car 'rocks up' (what ever that is, although, I assume that you mean someone, arrives quickly from that side road) which is STILL, not going to happen because, you can see your road is clear, in the time that it takes you to COMPLETE your actions (that is to turn right, into the side road).

The guy behind you isn't going to overtake you, because he will be, too far behind, as you will have controlled, your space around you prior to your manoeuvre. Should you have a car behind you, then, you will confirm your visual que's, indicate right, start to move a little onto the white line, gently touch the brake peddle, making sure the car behind is not mistaking your manoeuvre as an overtake (very unlikely with the brake addition), continue to move out, but perhaps a little later than otherwise, but still allowing the traffic to pass you (totally legally) on your left, and do your harder, and then final and appropriate braking, in the 'oncoming lane' ...

Does that make it a little more understandable ? If not I can discect it as much as you like
No I do not agree that they would be undertaking, as such, because you are turning right, not just traveling in the oncoming lane ! You are allowed to pass someone on their left, when they are indicating and appear to be turning off.
You have probably already 'undertaken 100's of driver's, such as when someone is beginning to, or are about to, use a right turn off lane, you pass them on their near side don't you ? Haven't you? Was that illegal - no ... this is the fine art of driving and 'real driving' in practice.

Let me be quite clear here - this is not traveling in the 'oncoming lane' for any more time, than necessary, the aim is to prevent the un-necessary slow down of the cars behind you, as you turn off, that is all, and as I say ONLY if it is clear. I would never dream of doing this or ever mentioning it, unless it was totally safe to do so. As I say it is an advanced technique, and perhaps many drivers out there are not competent to make that judgement call, although personally, anyone driving, makes the same judgement calls every day in a 100 different ways ... it is just the, perhaps, unfamiliarity, that is slightly confusing or scaring you ?

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Actually thinking about it. On many occasions where the lanes are quite wide and I've been turning right, I've decided to straddle the white line when waiting to turn right, providing enough room for people to pass on my left. Even when there's oncoming traffic I've done this since it avoids holding up the people behind you.

What is being discussed here is simply an extension of that technique, though you can't use it to queue while you wait for oncoming traffic for obvious reasons

I think everything you say makes sense, especially in terms of saving lorry's fuel, just many of us may never have seen such an open landscape while driving. Short of cycling from Pitlochry to Rannoch, I've always gone by train and haven't got a chance to experience driving that far up north.

Personally I don't think I'd do it unless I'd used a junction for a few times and got a natural feel for it.

It's like the very short right turn and hatchings, I always use the approach hatching if the lines are not solid. Gives following traffic a better chance to undertake, especially on a fast road.

this technique seems to mean you have a tighter corner to negogiate ?

thinking about this if i had a clear view of oncoming traffic and the road i was turning into.. if i didnt want to brake too heavily i'd probably take a racing line from the left lane, apexing at the wrong side of the road i'm turning into.

either way 9.5/10 times i'd go by the book (i.e. HC) i'm never really in a hurry and no one behind me can be that desperate to get where they're going surely.

I dunno, you should see the Irish lorrys in Liverpool as it nears the time for the last ferry of the day to depart.
You can't realy blame them though, miss that ferry and you have to spend a night in Liverpool

I just think it's too much to do, too much could happen, what happens if somebody breaks out of the line behind you, what happens if you misobserved the road you are turning down, what happens if the people behind you think you're avoiding something in the carriageway ahead, what happens if the person behind wants to turn right as well...

Giving enough space for people to filter past you on your left if you can is fair enough (and in the HC) , but if you're fully in the other lane you're basically trapped there, not a good idea IMO.

I always avoid hatchings like the plague. There might be some idiot coming the other way who decides to use the hatchings to gain a march on somebody else, and they are possibly the worst part of any road on which to apply your brakes.

Guaranteed people that use hatchings to drive on suffer more punctures than those that don't!

HC says only enter them if you have to IIRC, and that implies emergencies only to me.

Depends on what state the hatchings are in. If they're full of stones and debris then avoid them, but there are a number of junctions where I live where queueing in the hatchings is both normal and expected since it means right turners (of which there are a lot) don't clog up the straight ahead lanes and likewise when the red light is on for the straight ahead people, they don't block people trying to turn right. As a result the hatchings are free of debris and can be used with no problems.

Of course this would not be an issue if they had designed the junction properly in the first place, but the locals have enough common sense to make the design work. It would probably create a lot of congestion if the same design were used in the south east.

Yup, queueing Ok, but using them to get down a line of traffic not a good idea IMO, some people seem to think it's always OK to pull onto hatchings out of a queue as "nobody should be there", the physocology seems to be different to pulling out of a queue into a lane on the right (although naturally we do see people jerk out of queues into the lane next to them without looking).

I've actually done the opposite to this sometimes, when turning right out of a T junction onto the main road where there's better visibility to the right than the left.

It's not illegal to overtake on the left anywhere. Note the lack of "MUST" or "MUST NOT" in the Highway Code's description.

_________________
Andrew.