Safe Speed Forums

coppied from pepipoo..

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

She may have paid 10K for the vehicle but anyone buying at auction would be taking a big risk even assuming the keys were with it. Whats the service history? What is the condition of the vehicle really like? Be lucky enough to make £5K at auction. I once knew of a Range Rover book value £5K, no keys sold for £1K and lucky to make that.

Ian.. I read this as her vehicle was seized and auctioned off.




She should have had something in writing. DVLA .. and ANPR / given the press ]


HOW THE HELL can we trust.. allow ourselves to trust /...no matte how we want to.. would like to.


I think the authorities walk into snail traps here.

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does anyone else read stories like this and wonder how long before (and why already hasn't) someone gone ab-so-lute-ly postal?

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

I suspect that it happens frequently, but that the stories are heavily censord!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

From the stories I have read on pepipoo, I believe that DVLA are not informing drivers of thier revolked status. The Magistraites rightfully say it is not thier job. The girl claims that she got her licence back with points and no covering letter. This corrisponds with a similar case I read on PePiPoo. So we are left with 70,000 drivers who are driving aroud presuming theyy are not suspended. They could crash in to me or you and the insurance company claim they are not properly insured and drop cover to road traffic act only.

It is sad she got shafted but that is not thebig story here. It is the fact that there are 70000 unlicenced, under insured drivers unaware that they are out side the law because those idiots at DVLA arn't doing thier job.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

When this first came into force magistrates complained very loudly indeed about it. As we did about the huge increase in fixed penalties (and those entitled to give them out).We were ignored. It gives me no pleasure to confirm that the situation we predicted has come true.

I would like to add a bit of background to the comment made by Anton. We are of the opinion that it should be our job - either to handle the revocation or to tell the defendant about it - but were told from on high that it nothing to do with us.

We get a few new drivers who opt for court when they are going to hit 6 points. They come to us looking for a chance to put forward an exceptional hardship case to retain their licence. Lots of courts used to heed this and often imposed a short ban of a few days that could be covered by holiday and/or taxi in order to avoid a penalty that is disproportionate to the offence. We have received orders not to do this.





There is no doubt that the government expected the Auld report to recommend that JPs be abolished and replaced with DJs. Instead Lord Justice Auld praised the quality of justice by JPs and recommended an increase in powers for JPs. Since then :-

Courts have been closed all over the country, so the local justice that was the hallmark of magistrates courts no longer happens in a lot of places.

District Judges have been appointed at an unprecedented rate - in spite of the fact that JPs are struggling to get enough sittings due to so many things that we used to deal with now being handled by other means or agencies - meaning that ONE person, earning a minimum of £96,500 per annum decides what the law is, what the facts are and what the sentence should be. No wonder so many ordinary people feel hard done by.

Conditional cautions by the CPS are taking still more work away from the courts.

Police cautions are increasingly being used for serious offences that would have come to court not so long ago. I can't explain things any better than this
http://thelawwestofealingbroadway.blogspot.com/
look for "just sign here and off you go"



In short, many JPs are sure that the way the new driver rules are enforced is just another step towards abolishing JPs and putting as much of the justice system as possible behind closed doors. All in the name of financial expediency.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

I have read a report that the car was crushed! BBC TV I think.
However, regarding not being informed:
ALL new drivers, after passing the driving test, are informed of the six point rule affecting new drivers by the examiner.
Whilst appreciating that the excitement after having passed could lead to a mental blackout, they ARE told of their position as new drivers for the next two years.
Sympathy for the young lady but bad press reporting with little or no knowledge is what makes headlines!
Figures quoted above that 100,000 NEW drivers MAY be driving illegally come straight from the D.S.A. spin P.R. team!
Note the carefully chosen word "MAY"! How about "It MAY NOT"?
Get a copy of their leaflet and closely examine the figures quoted therein:
3,200 people are killed annually on our roads. 3,200
More than three hundred people were killed in accidents caused by young drivers in 2006. 320 i.e. 10%
one filth of all car deaths involve newly qualified drivers. 640 i.e. 20%
Note the use of "young" & "newly qualified"!
In the one fifth of all car deaths the 10% caused by young drivers is included. So:
car deaths caused by young drivers (17 - 25 years) is: 10% (320)
car deaths caused by newly qualified drivers over 25 years is: 10% (320)
car deaths caused by people over 25 years not newly qualified is: 80% (2,560)

Based on the above I would have to say that newly qualified and young drivers are better qualified, more up to date on their driving education and skills, and more intensely tested (theory, hazard perception plus the full test), than the majority of drivers on the roads today.
However little or no PR is given to this situation because our youngsters are already blamed for all of problems of this country. They are an emotive issue & fair game. highly loaded for insurance etc. and as parents this causes great concern.

Well the figure of 3,200 deaths ANNUALLY gives no leeway for increases or decreases - annually means every year!

The " more than 300 deaths caused by young drivers" is for a specific year, 2006, is cherry picking, and probably because it is the highest available.

The fact the press could give this such highlight and the responses from the general public shows to me that most of today's drivers, having passed the test in the good old days, are unaware of today's testing standard requirements otherwise the reporters and readers would know that EVERY newly qualified driver IS informed and to balance the articles & TV they would have checked with any driving examiner before publishing.

I do not believe that it is for a driver to "self revolk " thier own licence. It clearly is the duty of the courts or issuing authority to issue, revolk, ban or suspend.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

I always thought that it was for the government to pass laws and how they were to be implemented.
Six points in the first two years and your license is automatically revoked!
That's the law whatever individuals think.
If you are told this when you pass your test by an examiner then he is acting on behalf of the minister just as a police officer acts on behalf of the Chief Constable, who in turn acts on behalf of the government.
You might not like it but that's a fact and if you are told the terms and conditions imposed on you when you pass your test you are obliged to obey them or give your license back.

If your license, passport etc runs out then it's your fault if you don't renew it!

If you don't like the rules then don't join the club but don't blame the club secretary!

Forgive me but the rules say


So the rules of the club state that the secretary of state must serve notice and the revocation shall have effect fronm the date specified.... or am I reading the rules wrong?

also the girl had her licence returned but the law states....

for fisherman:
Have they messed up up?


also that points earned before passing your test count towards the 6 points when that is not what the law states

government web pages state

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

I wasn't told.

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Andrew.

I think it became law in 1997.
When I passed my driving test I was given an A4 sheet with that item upon it.
Not that it mattered to me, since I had a B1 licence anyway.

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My understanding - in other words this is what we were told but I can't quote statute for it - is that the DVLA are agents for the Secretary of State in so far as motor vehicle and driver licensing matters are concerned. So telling the DVLA, which is an automatic process, is deemed to comply with the rules.

The new driver law is that if the number of points on the licence is 6 or more, then revocation follows. It doesn't say that the points can only be counted if the were won after a test was passed.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

For the purposes of this legislation, the DVLA is the SoS.
The Act requires that the DVLA (SoS) serve a notice on the driver, notifying them of the revocation and the date of the revocation which cannot be before the date of service of the notice.

I am not aware of any case law regarding the definition of 'served' in the Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act - if the notice is not delivered, is the revocation effective?
Either way, allowing such crucial notices to be served by ordinary post is obscene.

Whilst arguably a new driver who reach 6 points should be aware that he is liable to have his licence revoked, his licences are not automigically revoked the instant the points are applied, it are revoked on the date specified by the DVLA on the notice which the DVLA are required to serve on him. Accordingly, he cannot be expected to know that his licence has been revoked before the notice is served, because it hasn't.
The 'automatic' revocation process is only automatic in the sense that it is an administrative process which allows no discretion (other than the date of revocation). It is still a process, rather than an instantaneous event.

Regarding points for offences before the start of the probationary period - s.2 requires the court or fixed penalty clerk to send the licence to the DVLA for revocation if an offence committed within the probationary period takes the total number of current points (s. 29 RTOA 1988) to 6 or more. Any points for offences committed before the probationary period, which were still current on the date of the new offence, will count towards the 6 (or more) points, but prior points on their own cannot trigger revocation under this Act. There has to be an endorsement for an offence committed within the probationary period.
E.g. if you had 8 points for offences committed before passing your first test, your licence would not be revoked when you became a 'new driver', but if your licence was endorsed for any offences committed during your probationary period, and while your prior points were still current, your total number of points would be 6 or more, and your licence would be revoked by the DVLA by notice served on you.

my quote was from the statute http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts1995/uk ... 50013_en_1 and I would add to your responsibilities that if you are presented with a licence and counterpart it is your responsibility to send it to the secretary of state (dvla). Although you do not revoke the licence, you take it away. Then they receive notice that they are revoked and they then have to apply for a provisional licence and tests.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code