Safe Speed Forums

I have a Volvo 460 that I want to scrap, it's just taking up space on my driveway, it currently has no tax, MOT or insurance.

Obviously I could just ring a scrappy and have them come and collect it, but I'm a cheapskate and want to get as much money for it as possible so..

1) I know there's a clause allowing an untaxed and untested vehicle to drive to an MOT, is there a similar clause for a scrapyard (obviously I'd need to insure it)

2) Can I legally tow it, using just a tow rope, with no insurance on the Volvo, assuming that the tow vehicle is fully legal, of course.

1) no. It would make sense to allow a trip to a scrapyard to be exempt from MOT but it isn't.

2) no. To be towed legally you need the MOT as well as tax and insurance.

It would be worth ringing a scrappy to see what they say about buying it. I recently got my local scrappy to collect an old land rover chassis and got £5 for it. But I am a regular customer and there is a lot of metal in a LR 130 chassis.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

What if it was not capable of mechanically propelling its self, and therefore was not legally a motor vehicle? (Remove gear box?)

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Andrew.

Its still a car and needs all the paperwork.

The case law precedent for this is Pumbien v Vines. In that case the car had deflated tyres, rear brakes seized and no oil in the gearbox. It could not even be towed unless it was dragged along with the wheels not rotating. That was held to need MOT and insurance just to be parked on public highway.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Hmm, so what is the legal difference between a car and a 4-wheeled trailer which happens to be carrying an engine?
Or a carriage which is pulled by horses?

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Andrew.

Purpose for which it was constructed or adapted.

Take the engine being carried in the four wheel trailer and connect it to the wheels to power the trailer and it becomes a vehicle which needs tax, insurance and probably SVA . It would also need an MOT after 3 years.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

£5 ??? You were done - you would have got £15- £20 here... BECAUSE there is a lot of metal in that chassis!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

You could possibly sell it on e-bay as spares or repair and get as much as the scrap man would give and the buyer would have the problem of moving it. or... You also could sell off usefull parts before calling a scrapman. Quite often you can flog indicator sticks and switches for 10-20 each, mirrors, bits of trim, and you still get £40 from the scrapman.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Already stuck it on the south wales volvo forums, all parts a tenner (except the engine). No-one seems interested. I can't be bothered with eBay and PayPal.

Anyone need any bits of 1992 Volvo 460?

So if it was constructed as a car, but you adapted it to be a trailer...
I am of course assuming that trailers don't need tax/MOTs.

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Andrew.

If I recall correctly, there are a number of exemptions for a "broken down vehicle" in the Construction and Use and the Lighting regs that would make it impossible for such a vehicle to be capable of holding an MOT and yet you can still tow one.

If that's correct, Fisherman's comments seem intriguing!

It was collected at a time and date set by me. In the circumstances I was happy with the price. Besides - most of it was rust.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

There probably is a point at which a car becomes a trailer if you remove enough of the car. It might not be enough to simply remove bits of car, you might need to adapt the remains to make it look more like a trailer.

I wouldn't want to gamble a no insurance conviction on guessing correctly.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

There may be exemptions for removal of a broken down vehicle from a place where it's presence on the road caused danger to other road users. I have certainly never seen a prosecution for anything of that kind, although I have seen quite a lot of dubious towing off my local motorway. Whether there is a legal exemption or if its just the local police seeing it as the lesser of two evils I don't know.


I am not aware of any exemptions that apply in the situation put forward by the OP, and prosecution in that sort of circumstance is fairly common.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Thank you for the replies, especially Fisherman. Simply stating that you have successfully prosecuted someone for doing what I was contemplating is enough to stop me doing it! I'm not going to get pedantic about car vs trailer. It's not worth the risk to gain what? an extra 50 quid.

I've seen cars converted to trailers, the typical method is to cut them in half, weld up the front and (I suspect this last one is crucial in order to make it legally a trailer) had the thingy for attaching to a tow ball fitted. To do that would cost me a lot more than 50 quid.

The only thing that's annoying now is it would have been cheaper (by about a tenner) to put the old Volvo 460 back on the road now that I'm getting a reduced scrap price. OTOH, I now have a Volvo 940 and it's rear wheel drive I think a tenner is possibly the cheapest RWD conversion ever (the cars look the same!)

pedantic mode on

courts don't prosecute, the CPS does that. We have to deal with whatever comes our way. We frequently see dangerous driving has been undercharged as DWDC but must sentence in accordance with the charge and not our personal thoughts. Rather less often we see a charge that we feel should not have been brought - and towing an uninsured car to a scrapyard for destruction might well come under that heading - but again, must sentence in accordance with the guidelines.

pedantic mode off

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Fair enough, but you still found them guilty and gave them an IN10, right?

I suppose if I wanted to get /really/ pedantic with the law I could book it in for an MOT at a station that requires traveling past the scrapyard, then change my mind as I pass it. (obviously I'd use someone like DayInsure if I was actually going to drive the car)

If you get a scrappy in check about the wheels. I got an extra £40 by taking the wheels off (tenner a wheel), as the scrappy has to pay for disposal of the tyres, and passes that on plus a cut. I then took the wheels to the local tip for free
Scrap has suddenly become very valuable - a mate got nearly £1500 for a 7.5 tonner recently! Do a bit of ringing round.

Barkstar

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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

Best price I could get was £40, no discount for taking the tyres off, so I suspect I'll find them in a ditch in a few days time.

Now to get the bits I need off the 460. I want the L from the Volvo badge so I can make my current car say LOLVO

This is intriguing! It seems so counter-intuitive! Worse, something I wasn't in the least bit aware of! Just exploring the idea further, it is obviously OK to move such a vehicle on a flat-back truck or trailer, but what about towing with a breakdown truck either by lifting its (say) front wheels off the ground using the winch hook or maybe by putting the front wheels in a spectacle frame? I've often seen pretty obviously scrap cars towed like that. Come to that, what about towing with an "A" frame or a rigid pole such as many of the recovery organisations use? Finally, would a pair of trade plates on the towed vehicle help if were towed with a tow rope?