Safe Speed Forums

Hi All,

Can someone please explain the (il)legalities of leaving the scene of an accident?

I've had a couple of collisions over the years, and after exchanging details, I've driven off into the sunset. Was this legal? Do you have to call and wait for the police after every RTA?

Thanks for your answers,

Andy

Andy,

Unless someone is injured (car on car or car to pedestrian/cyclist) there is no need to call the police-although technicalities can arise later so it might be best to call the emergency services if there is any doubt about injuries being prevalent or not.


Regards


Andrew

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It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

I have been called to accidents, where someone parking has cracked a light of another car PLEASE DON'T DO THIS.

section 170 of the road trafic act states:

170.—(1) This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, an accident occurs by which—
(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that motor vehicle, or
(b) damage is caused—
(i) to a vehicle other than that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(ii) to an animal other than an animal in or on that motor vehicle or a trailer drawn by that motor vehicle, or
(iii) to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.
(2) The driver of the motor vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.
(3) If for any reason the driver of the motor vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.

(4) A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is guilty of an offence.

(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of the vehicle does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—
(a) to a constable, or
(b) to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,
the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.
This subsection does not apply to the driver of an invalid carriage.


(6) To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or to produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act, the driver—
(a) must do so at a police station or to a constable, and
(b) must do so as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case, within twenty-four hours of the occurrence of the accident.
(7) A person who fails to comply with a duty under subsection (5) above is guilty of an offence, but he shall not be convicted by reason only of a failure to produce a certificate or other evidence if, within five days after the occurrence of the accident, the certificate or other evidence is produced at a police station that was specified by him at the time when the accident was reported.

(8) In this section "animal" means horse, cattle, ass, mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog.


Basically if its a minor bump don't call the police, just swap details for the insurace companies. If the accident is more serious, ie injury, lots of damage, obstructions in the highway, or any matter concerning safety, then call the police. Also call the police if you suspect the other party has not given you their correct details, or if you GENUINLY believe they have no insurance. If you can't find the owner of the property you have damaged, report it ito the police within 24 hours, no need to report it to us if you have only damaged your car, (unlesss you are injured) just tell your insurance company.
There easy innit

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

Thanks for the clarification guys - much appreciated.

(3) If for any reason the driver of the motor vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.

So, if you were to hit another car then drive off would that be legal providing you reported to collison to the police within 24 hours ?

Sec170 RTA states


You therefore must provide details there and then to anyone who reasonably requires your details, otherwise you fail to stop or fail to provide details.

If however you collide with a stationary vehicle, and you have no way of knowing whose vehicle it is, then you are legally required to report this as soon as practicable (ie immediately unless very good reasons to the contrary), but in any case within 24 hours. This is covered by Para 6 of Sec170 RTA,

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

You must always stop and exchange details, i also tell all my drivers to report the accident directley to the police.

Do not accept, they do not need to deal with it.

Unless you have an officer on site to record the actual details, anything can be stated by the other driver at a later date.

Remember we pay for our traffic police service, make use of it

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Steve

No The police do not need to deal with every minor bump, it's attitudes and lack of education like yours, that stretch an allready strained service. Do you think traffic are going to come to your minor bump I can tell you they won't, they will just send the report back to a beat unit who will on top of everything else they have to do, have to waste their time at your minor RTC.

Sorry if I sound a little testy, but you are quite simply wrong.

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

About 6 months ago, i would of completly agreed with you. However within that time, i have 2 drivers, involved in accidents, where my insurance company has finally agreed 50 / 50 responsibilty.

This is despite, the damage clearly showing the other vehicle to be in the wrong, in comparison to the road layout.

Now if i had an officer on the scene to record it, it would of been far simpler.

A couple of months ago, we had a woman rub bumpers with one of our trucks. I insisted the driver call the police, who duly turned up and recorded the details.

A month later, and we receive a letter from the woman's insurer stating we were at fault. Again it was very clearly the womans fault, and our driver has the pics from his camera phone of the vehicles position.

And more importantley the officer's number that turned up, which we will call upon if we have to.

Now this may waste your time, sorry, but in this world of claimers we need all the support we can get, and we do pay for it.

I know you feel stretched, but is that our fault

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Steve

Any driver in a report to their insurance company, should include a rough sketch map and average dimensions of the incident. This is all the insurance companies need to make up their own minds. If there are no injuries, I would issue both drivers with a producer, make the usual checks, and leave it at that. I would not complete a full FT65 RTC report, unless there was a lot of damage, the other party failed to stop, or if it was injury/death. These are not personal decisions, but force guidelines.

Insurance companies will nearly always go for a 50/50 closure for damage only incidents, due to the cost of making a challenge.
So as you can see, your minor bumps do not need police intervention. 6 months down the line when your insurance company contacts me, all I can say is that both drivers were given producers for a minor collision.

As for the reasons why the police are overstretched....simple.
The hardest job in the police is front line response. Many officers find the constant devaluation of the post, undermining by external and internal agencies, and stress levels simply too much after a few years.
These officers then look for a way out into a nice little department, and thus starts the vicious circle.
The most experienced officers should be out on the streets, but because of the highlighted problems, on the whole they can't wait to get off. So we have a situation whereby the morale of some of the best officers you can have, has been eroded so much, they will take a job in a cushy department doing as little as possible. The irony of it is, only a few years before, that same officer would be cursing some one who had done the same thing.

The wording says it all, we are no longer a supposed to call ourselves a police force, we must now say police service......nice.

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

The only time I have ever been breath-tested was after I stalled at a junction and someone crashed into the back of my car. An officer from Cleveland Constabulary came along just afterwards, gave us both breath-tests and producers and told the other driver it was his fault. This made it a lot easier for insurance purposes - I kept my no-claims bonus and didn't have to pay the excess.

This is the problem. I can understand you have better things to do, but often in these minor bumps the innocent party ends up out of pocket and as the Police did not attend that persons respect for the law diminshes.

If drivers jump a red light, exceed speed limit, cross a white line, drive dangerously in any way in front of a Trafffic Officer they can expect to be pulled over even though they have not had an accident, yet if they cause an accident they are ok as long as Police not see it happen.

This is not a criticism of front line Police officers, it is of those at the top who decide policy and allocate funds.

Had recent experiance of the effectivness of the force (service), with a recent break in.

I am not syaing it is the officers fault it took them 12 hrs to show up, and a week to return to take a look at the cctv to identify the vehicle and reg. By which time the thieves would of duly sold on there takings, rendering any chance of catching the thief in hand of stolen goods impossible.

The officer did explain, that their were only 2 officers covering the area, and one of them was going off for training.

I live in a largish town, our Police station now shuts in the evenings and weekends

The reduction in the police service, is making policing un-effective, is it not

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Steve

With regards to calling the police after an accident, don't get me wrong, I can fully understand as to why anyone would want to call the police after a bump, I'm just seeing it from my own slightly selfish point of view.

As for the current policing problems making the police un effective, I wouldn’t go that far.....yet.
I have been that man, I have been the only officer covering an area with the population of about 12,000
In these circumstances, policing is a total farce, as well as downright dangerous. Illness, leave, courses, secondments etc are always a drain on front line uniform officers, and until the politicians make this a priority, instead of just saying it is, then things will get worse.

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

Hi, I'm new here. I found the link from another Speed camera site.

Anyway, my input to this topic. The example of someone driving into a stationary car happened to me. I was sitting in a stationary queue of traffic when some idiot behind, too busy talking to his mate could not stop in time. I insisted on calling the police as my wife and daughter were with me. anyway, all details exchanged and so forth. The interesting bit. I had (niavely) assumed that as it was not my fault (I mean, what could I do to avoid it?) I would preserve my NCD and not have to pay the excess. However, this is not the case if the other driver does not admit fault. It shows up on your insurance record so you end up losing your NCD. Lucky for me I had uninsured recovery loss so I was able to get a court order which at least put my NCD back, as for the money I lost....

Welcome Ian!



Stop well short. Watch the mirror. If trouble arrives, drive out of the way.

At worst you'll be able to give the twit another 20ft of braking space. At best you'll be able to give him oodles of space...

It's also worth considering escapes to the left and the right.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

It's often really difficult to avoid a collision in these circumstances. I always approach a queue of cars saying to myself 'tyres and bumper', which is what I always still like to see of the car in front once stationary. If you are last in a queue your danger is only going to come from behind, so check mirrors and stay in gear until you are protected from behind. Stick hazards on if necessary. As Paul says check your escape route. This is vital as you are very vulnerable especially to heavier vehicles.

I'd offer slightly different advice to Neil regarding police attending RTCs. I'd like to attend collisions where the blameworthiness was worthy of our attention even when there are no injuries. Our force will also attend if there is any kind of dispute at the scene of the RTC. It may not be trafpol, but it often sorts out the minor disagreements which can arise on these fraught occasions. Obviously injury accidents, suspicion of drink, drug, disqual, joey details and obstruction of the road need our attention also.

This is how it works in Cumbria in any case. I know however that the higher level of response work in other forces may make this service more difficult.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Driving Instructors teach "Tyres & Tarmac" - always try to leave enough space in front of you to see the next vehicle's rear tyres and some tarmac as well!

Sounds silly saying it, but what good advice!

Safety buble around your vehicle - ok, it might not be needed 99% of journeys, but let's prepare for the 100th!

Just for clarity I'd like to add to the 'stop well short' that I wrote earlier.

In a rural type situation I normally come to a stop several hundred feet short if there's no visible traffic behind. I'll wait in this position ready to drive on when something appears in the mirror. If they don't look like stopping I can give them a great deal of space to loose speed in.

In an urban type situation I stop around 5 car lengths short of an obstruction ahead and again monitor the mirror.

These behaviours might be adjusted depending on the amount visibility available to following traffic. If there's a bend before the obstruction, I'll try really hard to ensure that I'm visible to traffic approaching the bend. On occasions (and given good knowledge of lack of traffic behind) I have reversed around a bend so that approaching traffic can see me at an early stage. Obviously such a move should only be undertaken if knowledge of following traffic is sufficient to ensure safety.

When in traffic, I'd never move closer than 'Tyres and Tarmac' or Tyres Touching Tarmac'. If I'm last in the queue I'd always allow far more.

If circumstances dictate that it's unwise to leave a big gap in front (as might be the case if there's a bend close behind - moving forward gives more room for following traffic to brake) then you really need to be looking for escapes to the side. I'll be asking myself if I can drive forwards to the left onto the verge or the right (possibly onto the other side of the road if sufficiently clear).

I don't stop monitoring traffic behind until about 4 or five behind have actually stopped. A heavy vehicle at speed can easily shunt 4 stationary cars together. In order to be able to continue to monitor after a couple of vehicles have stopped behind, you'll need to give one of your door mirrors a view past the traffic behind, so I'll be positioned deliberately well to the left or the right. Such positioning is highly compatible with a forwards and left or right escape route.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

That is indeed what I say Kendalian, and what I intended to write. Where did 'bumpers' come from?

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian