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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 23:45 
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:gatso2: Another dangerous killer driver has been banged up. Possibly for not long enough. I think the judge got it right.
:bounce1: :clap: :judge: :bow:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 59086.html

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:55 
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Why in gods name are cases like this reported with an emphasis on "Dangerous driving" and "Driving without insurance"

His driving behavior (and resultant accident) was basicaly incidental to much more serious offences!

He was a violent armed robber!

And yet the judge and the press bang on about his bad driving!

Sheese :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:43 
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Dusty wrote:
He was a violent armed robber! And yet the judge and the press bang on about his bad driving!


But it was the bad driving that got someone killed, wasn't it?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 13:03 
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Abercrombie wrote:
Dusty wrote:
He was a violent armed robber! And yet the judge and the press bang on about his bad driving!


But it was the bad driving that got someone killed, wasn't it?


That is true But

The death was not intentional, the robbery was!

(I am a big believer in "Mens Rae", there is far to much punishing people for the consequences of their actions rather than their intent these days for my liking, its all political posturing with scant regard for justice!)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 13:46 
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Dusty wrote:
there is far to much punishing people for the consequences of their actions rather than their intent


Fine, but those who are caught should be punished for their own behaviour, and for the behaviour of those who get away. We should make the total amount of punishment equate to the total amount of crime.

PS: people who intentionally drive badly "intend" to kill and maim people.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 23:13 
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Abercrombie wrote:
Fine, but those who are caught should be punished for their own behaviour, and for the behaviour of those who get away. We should make the total amount of punishment equate to the total amount of crime.

PS: people who intentionally drive badly "intend" to kill and maim people.
:rotfl: But seriously ...
1st
Your actual agenda must be some sort of social experiment to determine whether a revolution is possible in the 21st century.

If every person caught driving over the posted limit, is punished for every person who has driven over the posted limit, you are effectively punishing the few for the inability of the legislative and judicial branches to influence the majority. That is either a recipe for anarchy, or a population of sheeple ...

Besides, such Draconian measures would be unnecessary if the laws were written properly. The best laws require very little tweaking to achieve a naturally high level of compliance. Therefore, the law is flawed.
2nd
People who intend to kill and maim people, kill and maim people. 'Weapons of opportunity' - I.E., items commonly used by the public for nonviolent purposes - are often preferable to objects designed primarily for the purposes of killing, maiming, and otherwise harming people and animals, for their very multifunctionality.

It now appears that one of those many functions is encouraging demagogues to believe that there are no meaningful distinctions between infractions, regulatory offences, code violations, infringements, misdemeanors, and violent felonies.


However, to provide a counterpoint, if I had managed to kill a good friend of mine through wanton recklessness without using a car, I would imagine that the penalty would be somewhat gentler than eight years in prison (I don't even consider the 15 year driving ban a punishment, more like a precaution). IMHO, it should be greater, regardless of the instruments involved, and I am removing the fact that he was busy committing other felonies in the meantime.

I also don't see why the newspaper chose to refer to Mark Page as a joyrider. I am a former joyrider. (OK, former may still be a bit of a stretch?)
He carjacked his own father with a knife.
He also carjacked some other lady [with, or without a knife?].
He evaded police when spotted playing with the handbrake (every time I got caught playing with the handbrake by cops, I just waited, had a nice chat with the officers, and generally behaved in a manner completely opposite Mark Page, whcih is primarily why I have no record of being a joyrider. That I was usually alone, and went to great lengths to guarantee that is the other reason.)
He stole fuel.
He continued to evade police and resist arrest, resulting in the death of Darryl Faulkner.
Where I'm from, when death[s] result[s]s during the commision of a felony, the charge or charges resulting from said deaths are either manslaughter, or murder.
If anything, he got off easy because he did it with a car.


I hereby charge the Belfast Telegraph of reporting this article with an inappropriately skewed perspective, and thus skewing the perspective of the readers in turn.

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Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 18:16 
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:gatso2: Unfortunately, the report doesn't tell you a lot about this so-called "joyrider". He's been causing nothing but trouble since the age of 12. He was involved in a similar incident almost five years ago when he drove a car with three teenage girls into a field near to where he killed his friend while being pursued by police. I may add that when he was involved in that crash in 2006, he didn't walk away. He was injured an spent some time in a wheelchair.

He has also caused problems for two senior citizens, subjecting them to malicious phone calls and violently throwing their dog up against a wall. He's spent time in-as you call it "juvenile hall". He was beaten up and shot by paramilitaries for drug-dealing. He was showered with gifts ranging from an expensive PC, a pit bull terrier and a dirt bike. Nothing would change him. He's a psychopath who loves hurting people. Even his own mother disowned him.
He threatened members of my family and he threatened me. So as far as I'm concerned-IT'S PERSONAL! So, well done Judge Tom Burgess. Payback's a real b :censored: h, ain't it! :twisted: SCHADENFREUDE.

I think that Judge Burgess got it right. I was in his court on jury service five years ago. I don't know what he did to the defendant, but he scared the Hell out of me! I found him to be a strict, outspoken judge who doesn't really do "slap on the wrist" type punishment.

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Last edited by CJG on Sat Nov 15, 2008 18:56, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 18:41 
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Abercrombie wrote:
PS: people who intentionally drive badly "intend" to kill and maim people.


:?

I can only assume the "" marks indicate sarcasm. That's how I'm taking it anyway.

There'd be a lot easier and more direct ways to "intend" to kill people than intentionally driving badly.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 01:52 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
Abercrombie wrote:
PS: people who intentionally drive badly "intend" to kill and maim people.


:?

I can only assume the "" marks indicate sarcasm. That's how I'm taking it anyway.

There'd be a lot easier and more direct ways to "intend" to kill people than intentionally driving badly.


I think he means these thugs know that there is a probability that they may crash into something :popcorn:

Part of the sick thrill for some :furious:

In this case - catalogue of horrors reported by the press. Such types exist. :roll: I suspect drink/drugs fuelled his actions.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:51 
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Abercrombie wrote:
Dusty wrote:
there is far to much punishing people for the consequences of their actions rather than their intent


Fine, but those who are caught should be punished for their own behaviour, and for the behaviour of those who get away. We should make the total amount of punishment equate to the total amount of crime.

PS: people who intentionally drive badly "intend" to kill and maim people.



They mitigate the past crimes by asking for them to be "taken into account". This prevents their being tried for the past crimes which they admit to whilst being prosecuted for the one we copped them for. :banghead:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 13:00 
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Dusty wrote:
Why in gods name are cases like this reported with an emphasis on "Dangerous driving" and "Driving without insurance"

His driving behavior (and resultant accident) was basicaly incidental to much more serious offences!

He was a violent armed robber!

And yet the judge and the press bang on about his bad driving!

Sheese :roll:



Of course - had he been punished properly for the previous offences - he would not then have been free to commit this one. :roll:

By joyriding and hi jacking cars - he was hardly going to drive like an "angel" :roll;

But part of this incident would appear to have its roots in the past court appearances which failed to impose a sentence to deter. These career criminals take up almost all of our working time. :banghead: When we arrest them - they can be quite violent when resisting arrest and we have to be careful as to the amount of force we can use - lest we create some loophole for the defence to seize on.

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A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

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Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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