Safe Speed Forums

Not sure if I should put this rant in the soapbox or in chattering or what.

Anyway.. UK ground to a halt.

Public transport never emerged .. at all/ Not in London.. but buses were seen in Northern towns in more snow than London had


But .. chortle.. snigger .. guffaw..

I am sorry ,.. but .. on the News At Ten and other News channels showing live video coverage of London wimps' "rush hours"... I saw cars.. (not many) .. NO buses.. the odd taxi..

And where on earth was the "transport of the future.." the "we get to work in any weather brigade" . aka "eco warriors who purport tp cycle everywhere in any weather and who profess to live in London.. "

Nope .. unless in invisible lycra. not seen.

Awww, I was sort of hoping to find out what spinny looked like too..

So .. so much for the bicycle.. bit of snow.. and no sign/


So much for the train and bus.. nope.. apparently not running here.

Now the car.. Yep .. I got to work just fine.

Wildy.. put our own kids on the school bus. Independent schools .. work kas they did when I was a lad.

She ended up teaching the fosters herself all day yesterday as their schools wer "out" and she had a "toes up day to work from home" So whilst they did their written stuff to practise . she did her own work . then taught again.

Verdict of these kids? They now understand Maths, Biology and Chemistry .. but are no wiser on English ,. (I need a completely roll over in hysterics smiley guy... Our own kids read aloud in a "funny accent" cos of her "meddlin' It's surreal.. You could not describe it., Blimey. )


But back to serious motoring stuff...


What the hell is wrong with the UK that it falls apart over a few inches of the wet snow which happens to its type of snow over the centuries. Europe has the dry powdery stuff. England has always had the mushy heavy variety. which slushes and freezes. OK . not nice.. but liveable with enough in the past and it never caused such a close down .. made worse by "them" .. the pee ceee .elfin safty brigade..

I was never off school in heavier snow than this when a lad in Hawes. Dad went to his work. Mum went to her work. Everyone else in the village did. No one died as a result. Life continued.

So what the hell is wrong with the UK and London a CAPITAL city which will be in charge of the next Olympics and was once the capital city of a huge Commonwealth of member nations across the globe once

No doubt cowering in defeat to politcally correct incompetents who know nothing of real life as they think they understand it all from "peer reviewed twaddling"

Now had my say.

Discuss

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our local(ish) news has had a head teacher in leicester on saying how they always used to trudge to school when he was a lad.... and can't see why it's any different now.

true most of the kids in a catchment area probably could walk in if necessary, and it always makes for a good adventure.
however many schools will have been closed due to sufficient staff not being able to get in, i'm guessing a much larger proportion of staff live beyond typical walking distance than they used to... another effect of the car culture i guess.

another observation from the last few days is... apparently if its snowy you must drive really really slowly cos its slippery, but because you're going so slowly you can do this within a few feet of the car infront

I am nowhere near London but I did see a man trying to ride his bike and he got off again and pushed it. It was so slippery that he was struggling to even walk on the ice.

I'm near London, about 20 odd miles away in the Surrey/Hampshire area. I cycled to work on Monday and Tuesday. Didn't see any cars on Monday, there were a few on Tuesday though.

Mountain bikes* will inherit the earth, you know it's true MM!

*Though I did use 2.2" tyres with a only 15psi in them.

So this'll be me then:

And where on earth was the "transport of the future.." the "we get to work in any weather brigade" . aka "eco warriors who purport tp cycle everywhere in any weather and who profess to live in London.. "

Except the London bit, but you can't win 'em all...

Well I can confirm that the business park near to me was pretty much shut down with no-one parked in any of the car parks apart from one person who'd turned up to work in a Hilux

Funny how I was able to get there in my RWD Volvo, and so did the guy in the E reg BMW M3 (despite the BBC showing BMWs getting stuck and needing to be pushed), and the guy in the Scooby and a couple of small FWD hatchbacks driven by youngsters, all of whom seemed to be enjoying themselves quite sensibly.

Well the only way to get good at driving in the snow is to practice, right?

Aye, the b*****ds were practicing in a car park 100 yards from my bedroom window at midnight on Sunday!

'Til the BiBs turned up......

At least here people had the courtesy to do it in a business park that's a long way from any nearby houses and during the day.

No BiB got involved (not sure what laws are being broken anyway, except maybe disturbing the peace, in your situation) but I did notice after the number of chavs attending increased (which myself and the other people in the non-FWD cars took as a signal to leave) they decided to put one of those Volvo estate paramedics on standby just outside the park.

I think I've become a slightly better driver from the experience, free skid pan!

Ah, yes! The winter of '63. Did more miles sideways............with buses!

The winter of 63 I remember it well. The trouble is since then we as a nation have gone soft expecting government, councils and everyone but ourselves to sort everything out for us never expecting to face the slightest difficulity or hardship. The press will whip a story up where none exists giving some poor spokesperson a hard time in the hope of a wrong type of snow quote.

1963, had an old Morris ten at the time, drove every day for the six weeks. Soon learnt how to drive gently and use the engine to brake so as to not get into skids. Most of the roads were hard packed snow with few having been cleared and most had snow piled up at the sides where pavements had been cleared. As Ian said, people did not expect every thing to be done for them. Buses ran because they were giving a service, schools carried on as normal. Not like now where everyone is afraid to do anything because it may not be safe and they are frightened of being sued.

And this is why I was out taking to opportunity to learn to drive in the snow

My GFs boss has just told her not to come in even though she was about to leave. I think we'll both go out for some RWD fun later.

I have to confess I did cancel my job for today, which was in East Anglia because I have no idea if I'd make it home again. To be fair though, I'm still learning to drive RWD in normal conditions

My parents are full of 1963 and how they wrapped me in three overcoats before escorting me to school


We lived in Hawes.. I am a Dalesman by birth and heart. Winters were always hard there as I grew from boy to teen to manhood.

But.. we send our own kids to Independent. That school remains open and sends its school bus .. come what may.

Our fosters' state schools closed. Wildy can work from home at this stage in her work and her pregnancy. (She will be working as consultant as she's at "too interesting a stage in her work and it will not "tax her nor interfere with maternal bonding duties to keep up input as in past )

Anyway. Wildy has been "teaching" our fosters this week. Verdict of these kids? They now understand Maths/Sciences better English and my wife.. .. errrrr..

But .. all the same. As I boy.. we coped with much worse weathers of the real winter cold. We are told that the absence of winter equates to "global warming"

But we have the severe cold once per decade. This one happens to be two years later from past timetabling cycles of nature

It's our normal cycle. Green issues? Well no "peer" has reviewed them. I thus choose not to believe them. After all .. this works for Mongiblets

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I am greatly sadden by the media showing such total lack of the general driver's lack of understanding how to drive on snow / ice.

I don't say that ice is possible to do that much on but I managed to go up an extremely difficult hill but I have to go up at an angle and the r/w spinning somewhat but I got there, and then on the down slop I had to go very carefully and ensure that I stayed on the extremely slippery road. Even the main trunk road the A9 was down to 20mph unless you were a 4x4 in which case they did about 40 and showered you with slush as they shot past !
So I still reckon that ALL drivers should do at least 1 day on a skid pan after the 1st and 2nd yr of driving experience. I think that if you do this too soon to passing the test you do not have enough experience to fully appreciate the knowledge you are learning. BUT I would never ever say that people could not have these courses sooner if so desired !
When Paul and I were in a private car park the BIB came and watched for quite some time. No one called a paramedic or anything, mind it was just us !
But how telling of this all so worrying H&S lifestyle, that people are now told to be so concerned about everything that no one dare step out of their ever shrinking boundaries, just in case they are sued for it ! What another appalling state of affairs !
No chains to get through these snow patches, or grip-mats or anything that I can see - esp the Exeter stuck 100's of cars !

Driver ability is also ever shrinking, and more unable to cope.

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So do I, but not everyone agrees...

And as for the comment about 4X4s, I've heard several people say that they had problems on snow/ice "even though I've got a 4x4". This shows a remarkable lack of degree of understanding of the limits of the benefits of 4wd. I tried to explain to one colleague that 4wd was only of use when applying some power, and that apart from having a bit more engine braking capacity, when sliding down a hill she was in the same boat as the rest of us, but I was met with a blank stare.

Just to verify my context here - I am suggesting, that there is too much fear being put across, and not enough responsibility for our actions, and then, there is not enough education to help inspire people to understand fully and to do the 'right thing' either. This balance needs to be addressed, people need to be educated to know what the 'right thing' is, so that everyone clearly understands. This educates the 'whole system' across all levels of society. (Like public education films). The 'blame' culture lessens, as understanding is increased.

It would have been good at the end of the Exeter snow scenario that driving experts called in to ask what they may have done and how drivers might deal with it and prepare for it. All the info I have seen recently for car prep for winter NEVER include chains, grip mats, shovels, rope, winter boots, coats and blankets and reserve food/drink. A chance missed.
Plus of course - getting on a skid pan and learning about how to drive on snow ... even if people had taken it in turns to get up the hill, that would have been better, than the least able, or in-experienced, causing the traffic to stop, and then that creating the huge tailback.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

In almost every case in Beds of drivers being unable to proceed because of ice, it has been trucks being unable to get grip. In spite of warnings not to drive. Other drivers seem to manage quite well....speed down, gap increased, considerate and helpful. Then it gets let-down by the dummies driving trucks. Going out of town I met two trucks (same company) driving into town.......speed limit 30 (ignored) gap between trucks about 30 feet....and the rear driver using his right hand to chat on the phone.... (good-one Belkin)...
It is not as if the "driving-and-phoning" is restricted to a few drivers....but in 6 inches of snow ?

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I note .. "global warming" is the cause.

Look .. it's winter. It happens. We appear to get one heavy white out once per decade as with the extreme and very over - long heatwaves. 1942... 1956... 1963.. 1974... 1982.. and 85 .. then 1991... and 1995/6 are all examples of the bad winters.. building up to the next overpowering heat wave of a summer. It happens.









I think folk just think it will not ever happen. They believed the peer reviewers who claimed "snow would be rare .. we'd get rain and wind instead"

Admittedly England does not get the winters Scotland and Europe mainland do get each year .. so they do not see the expense as justified perhaps.

But all the same.. I know that as a lad growing up around Hawes area - we frequently had heavy snows in Jan-Feb and my parents always used to say .. get Jan-March over when deciding on our family holidays by car.

It did not stop school .. nor did businesses close either though Folk managed and were responsible.

These days? Unable to make a sensible decision because of "elfin softy" and continually looking to the "government to sort it" instead of judging risk for oneself.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Linkedto this is Allan Roadpeace's letter in the Bolton News


Now as far as I am aware .. country was gridlocked. TV cameras showed little traffic and I cannot believe they filmed at 3 am.

I doubt any one driver was pinged by any speed camera this last week. Or if they were .. then something would be wrong with the device as we were in a crawl most of the time.




Illogical. 14 days to get a NIP through and I doubt they were "speeding".



Harry Hill RIP. He died aged 92 last Saturday (31 Jan) I can understand why Allan wanted to pay his respects.



Up that hil? (I know where he was heading here ) But then weather fronts do set in and I wonder how wise and am fairly sure the late Harry would have understood his friend was with him in spirit.





eh? Surely if the chap could not see .. he should have dismounted and walked. That was the equivalent of the low sun blinding the driver to the cyclist.. surely?

Cars would not be at less than 10 mph with the lead car behind and nervous of a cyclist in bad conditions. 20-28 mph in third gear - assuming a normal saloon car - would be perfectly acceptable and less prone to skids in those conditions in the Pennines around where he was. If it was too thick and fast .. drivers would choose a lower speed and would be stacking in crawl as they were during my journeys most of this last week. Speed limit on that road is 40 mph going into a 30 mph by the way. If clear and sunny and flowing .. most would be around this. As far as we are aware from pals/family down in the burbs ... it has the occasional cam van. Allan says the 40 mph was about 10 minutes behind him.. at his then current speed perhaps

I agree though that 40 mph would not be a safe speed if blizzard conditions prevailed. I think they were really at 30 mph and it seemed all the faster perhaps to the cyclist at a very low speed because of the nasty weather front coming in from the hills and now struggling on that climb.




Hang on.. the stats which CTC use to boost cycling claim LESS accidents because of MORE cyclists out there.

Manchester figures claim the accidents are not down to speed as prime cause .. but because folk fail to look out properly.. fail to wear seatbelts.. and yep.. they claim a huge part of their 2008 success has been down to clamping down on phone abuse and removing the uninsured/unlicenced from the roads in person.





It's winter It has always been cold and snowy at times. The lack of snow was used to show how things had become "hotter" - especially in Swiss Alps 2006-2007 season when they had "none" of ski quality and it cost tourist trade.


I AGREE about the phone thing. But I do not think those drivers were on the phone there to the extent claimed here.


Allan did make it to the hospital .. but sadly too late to see his friend who died on the Saturday. That area of Manchester was snow hit for the Monday commute .. as everywhere else. Perhaps .. he should have phoned the hospital or Harry's family for an update before he set off.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Here Here, Johnnytheboy: Nothing winds me up more than people who believe their SUV is "brilliant" in the snow and therfore drive too fast due to underestimating an acceptable level of risk.

I have a 4x4 jeep and front-wheel-drive car. I head off to Snowdonia for some mountaineering when we get this weather, but I don't take the 4x4! The 4x4 is rear wheel drive on road, so the minor advantage of engageing the front wheels in a tricky situation isn't justified compared to the front-wheel-drive car's better traction on snowy roads. Of course I take ropes, chains and a winch just in case, as well as provisions and equipment if stranded for a few days.

An interesting point with an Electronic Limited Slip Differential (eLSD) is that it wont engage at speed or cornering for stability reasons - hence such a SUV is a practically front wheel drive at all times.