Safe Speed Forums

I decided to open up a new thread because I thought we'd drift off topic in Adam's original topic on Mechanical Failures. In fact - it warrants a thread of its own .. and check out a thread of ca 2005 in "Improve" in which we discussed this with Paul - especially IanH's excellent explanation and his diagram which unerpins the written explanations.




No - not not at all in reality,



But you need to be aware of what we call the "limit point" which we define as the "furthest point along the road to whihc you have an uninterrupted view of the road surface" On a level stretch this will be where the right hand side of the road appears to intersect with the left hand side of the road. This point is what we call the "limit point" and this defines the distance in which you can stop safely on your own side of the road in hte distance you can see to be clear. This determines your speed in real terms. The more distant this point . the faster you can approach. If closer - you slow down and lightly tap the brake as you will have less space to stop in. As you approach a bend the limit point appears stationary and moves away at constant speed as you come ut of the bend The technique means you match the speed at which this limit point appears to move. If it's moving away from you - accelerate. If closer or apeearing static .. decelerate or even brake - which is what Johnnny would perhaps be doing here.

This skill of understanding and using limit point technique is important as it ensures that you are observing the golden safety rule of being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear... defines your speed of approach and negotiation.. gearing . acceleration.. deceleration and smoothness of drive

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

My point sort of was using your brakes coming up to a corner is good driving, you're using your brakes before you have no choice but to use them (although you're better off using engine braking in this situation IMO), using them in the corner to stop yourself falling off the road (i.e. HAVING to use them) = bad driving.

HI weepy ..

Yes I can see your point .. and it's still all to do with COAST skills plus the limit point technique (related to COAST in terms of taking in all information and PLANNING accordingly.)

If you hit the brakes and lose control .. or end up with you simply not being on control of the vehicle because of a series of errors ... then you will certainly face charges in the case of an accident which all forensic investigation reveals such errors.

However, Johnny used the brakes to slow before entering the curve .. which was correct.

Hey weepy .. I try to help all out there here.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Well, sort of. If you NEED to slow down before the corner and you're not going to make it if you don't then I figure that's an emergency too, you're braking too late.

Certainly if your brakes aren't working then you want soem space to be doing some engine braking.

But then, if the brakes HAVE failed then you'd want to know, and the only way you're going to find that out is by using them.

So, best to use the brakes a bit and then use enging braking?

Hi weepy mate

It;s to do with the limit point and COAST observations. Ain't it funny how we always come back to the "cute acronym"


We assess on smoothness of approaches .. so we would be using gears etc to slow it down.

Yes .. I am aware some do not realise brake pads/discs wear "feel spongy" It;s another area where I would say we should be kindling more enthusiasm to learn more.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

In Gear makes reference to the limit point the furthest point along the road to which you have an uninterrupted view of the road surface. Fair enough but it is not just your forward view which should be used to set your speed into a corner. What about the idot riding up your exhaust pipe? You may be able to gain a few feet advantage by correct positioning but if he is up that close then he is probably not paying attention anyway should a situation arise where you have to reduce speed quickly. Also what about the low morning sun which you run into around that bend. By entering the bend that little bit slower than perhaps you would like to you give the idot behind increased stopping distance and time to react if that unexpected situation developes.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Officer, does this sound familiar to you?

By the way, the images in 'CORNERING - How much do you know' have been gone for some time, and they were pretty good ones ...

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The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

I'm not sure that generalisation applies in hilly terrain! There are plenty of places round here where you might not make it round a corner without braking simply because it's so steep!

Two points:
1. I think you're confusing braking and emergency braking.
As alluded to by In Gear you should always be able to stop in the distance you can see (half the distance on a single track road) but this doesn't mean you're going too fast if you use the brakes to slow when the limit point gets closer, if you've still got brake power in reserve.
2. I do engine brake a fair bit (my first car had woeful brakes so I got in to the habit), but I've often been told that the brake pads are consumables, so best to put the wear on them rather than the engine.