Safe Speed Forums

Random question.

Do they generally put Msc away form town centres, to allow room for the police van to sit etc?

Also do hills provide a problem for recording or can they record up hills fine? As much to my annoyance I was coming down a hill today in a 30 zone and whilst almost always very careful I had slipped to 34 mph, and immeadiately slammed on brakes. I am now worried, even though I dont think there was a camera there.

Rob, you really need to speak to Greenshed, our resident road safety/ driving expert....

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

greenshed That is not the advice I would give!

Laser speed cameras if used properly work and can detect speed up hill, down hill, on bends fine. Any slight advantage is allways to the driver. The highest possible reading is gained when the driver is driving directly towards or away from the camera.

Radar can get confused by barriers, walls, vibrating busses/lorries , ships communications equipment, rain.

If your speedo is indication 34 you are probobly doing less. most over read by 5-10%
mine over read by 6%. ie if it displays 100mph gps claims 94mph
If you intent to callibrate your speedo get long steady reading as gps can take a while to display the curent reading. rather thas the average of the last minuite.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

A joke mate ....

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

ok I get it... I am suffering from grumpy old man syndrome this week

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

My gps read 32 I believe. and that was the most it read on that road. I was just concerned their gun would mess up, or they need to reach their targets and so claim I was doing faster,obviously the courts only believe one side.

Dont think there were MSC there anyway, it was kinda in a town centre bit, do they not usually put them there as there isnt enough room?

Small town called Halstead.

They do 'mess up', many do receive refunds and points off licenses. Sometimes due to paperwork errors and sometimes proved in Court for LTI2020 errors, along with everything inbetween.

Councils have to approve locations of all mobile camera vans, and can this info can be requested, and updated - hence how the SatNav Companies find them, and try to keep all locations updated.
They have tried to justify colour of vans to be different colours for resale, however it is clear that they are trying to have them blend into the road furnishings.
I see now that Dorset are removing Camera Signs prior to any camera vans, too.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Have LTI2020 errors been proven in court or have courts been told a load of rubbish to confuse the lay magistrates and the judges who have been inclined to find against the equipment out of ignorance of the technology?
When the expertise is presented on both sides the defence lose on their supposed technical points.

Councils do not have to approve enforcement locations although most do have some say in the matter. The police can and do locate enforcement vehicles as they see fit. Many sites are being removed from partnership, police and council websites.

With highly reflective markings; how does that work?

This would seem to be quite logical; after all what were the police enforcement signs for? Were they to show where the enforcement would be likely to take place or were they to indicate where drivers needed to observe the speed limit. 100% of the road network has obvious indication of the maximum speed; police enforcement signs have no other use, IMHO, but to indicate to a driver where to slow down and observe the limit which should be observed anyway.

It's a bit difficult to get the evidence when there are staff (!) dedicated to reviewing and dropping cases they don't want to fight. Do you know how many cases are mysteriously dropped?
Isn't it interesting that one has to fight tooth and nail to get hold of the necessary video evidence?

What do you make of the 'expert witness' Frank Garrett's admission that slip error can be achieved on a stationary surface, but cannot be from moving one "because it’s not designed to measure stationary targets" – what? Lidar?

Has the continuing deceptions and misrepresentations from SCP analysts and representatives been proven in court? Should they be?
(I'm talking about their claims of camera effectiveness without accounting for the known and quantified effects of RTTM and long-term trends [or even 'bias on selection']).

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

1. don't ever "slam" on the brakes (unless you're about to hit something)
2. use the gears to control your downhill speed and the occasional dab on the brake if necessary

No harm in going out and doing a bit of practising.

Probably the same way they do things in this shire county, they OPEN the chevronned rear doors flat against the sides.
One went even further, the doors were not only open, hiding the reflective markings, and there was a ladder propped-up against the side....and yes...it was a speed van because it was me that went past it....the camera inside and the guy aiming it were clearly visible.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Wise words, I would also add consider further training, like the advanced driving test in a previous test. Increase your observation skills and your worries about the dreaded speed traps will decrease.

I drive an Auto though .

You can still knock it into position 3 or 2 so it won't go above that gearing, unless it's really being overworked.

I think most auto manuals suggest you put it in position 3 when driving in hilly parts anyway.

Indeed, or alternatively, a lot of autos have a 'sport' button. This prevents the transmission from going into top gear and will hold the gears longer, which under low load will give increased engine braking. In fact, I think I have only ever used the sport setting in my wifes auto to ensure speed limit compliance.

A question I asked before possibly in another thread that I didnt see an answer too was this.

although technically and legally speed cameras can catch you from the second you pass the speed limit change sign, are they likely to give you a few metre grace past it?

I was assuming so since it could lead to complications surely if they were using their cameras to detect you from far away as people could argue they were prior to the limit change etc.

So in general do they not scan people directly as the limit changes but give say 10 metres grace?

I would say they have to give at least a few meters, but I base this on common sense and I can’t guarantee all operators apply it.
This is a result of not quite knowing exactly where the vehicle is with respect to the limit change (due to set up or operator error), so I reckon leeway is given to prevent any chance of inappropriately targeting a vehicle within another limit.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

People have a right to a defense in this Country -even though they are trying to slap all charges onto anyone wishing to have a defense as opposed to blatant compliance. Terrible state of affairs - this principal.
I have seen used and been shown LTI2020 and seen many many errors for myself I know they happen.
Oh, really ?! Do you know something that I don't ? Do enlighten me and reference the document so that I can be better informed.

We are NOT talking about the Police's use of speed equipment which they can use various equipment from the cars and from any location. Mobile camera vans have to have locations approved of by local authorities.
The reflections? The visual clue as to it being a 'van' with some marking on?


To help notify people of a possible Mobile Camera unit, to encourage compliance to the stated limit.
Whilst I can try to see that you are saying that all people should always obey a speed limit, there is much much more to real world driving conditions and as stats over the years clearly show that those at the 85% are the safest road users (note the 85% can be lower, at, or over the posted limit for any section of road),it is not 'JUST' or 'ONLY' about sticking rigidly to a specific number. The aim of the MSC vans was to locate them in areas of 'apparent' danger, so the signs acted as a notice to drivers whether MSC vans were there or not that this area was a 'semi-blackspot' or a 'danger' area. By removing them there is no warning other than the van when it is there.
Since they claim they are about road safety, when is it 'safe' to deprive people of information about road qualities.
They also want to be 'obvious' about their practices, by taking away the signs the become 'underhand' and the 'highway robber' scenario leaping out to 'get you' comes clearly into view.

The Police have always previously known about best road safety practices, MSC Partnerships do not - they have one purpose, to book people for speeding regardless whether 'safe' or not it is a numeric exercise that has and cannot increase road safety. It leads drivers to stick to a specific numeric value and forget about all other good road driving practices, as the roads are slowed and the consequence of congestion increases, drive fatigue, boredom, inattention and frustration = accidents increase. And guess what all the latest figures show a continuing increase in accidents.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

But are they safe enough?

Excellent question.

Well we can never be satisfied that 'just' because people are driving within an 85th percentile (85%) factor, that this is ALL that a driver might need. It purely indicates that the collective information drawn from that process implies that these drivers are 'safe'. However all drivers need to always drive to the very best of their ability, and continue to learn about how to strive for best practice, to keep themselves safe, and those all about them too, and try to allow for their own mistakes (ensuring space to enable room to use up, to retain a safety margin etc.) and all those about them too.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.