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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 13:58 
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Article Here
and Daily Mail Article Here.
I was on Radio Essex with Etholle just after 1pm today on this topic. :)

Fiona Pendlebury wrote:
Angry Dorset motorists torch speed cameras
8:14am Monday 17th August 2009
comment Comments (58)
By Fiona Pendlebury »
ANGRY motorists appear to have taken their revenge after two speed cameras were torched in the space of just over a week.
Police are investigating after the GATSO machine was set alight in the early hours of Saturday at Ringwood Road, Verwood.
A member of staff at the nearby Verwood Surplus Stores said: “Someone probably got caught during the day and thought they’d come back at night. We don’t get a lot of trouble around here. It was a surprise to see it down when we went out in the morning.”
The previous weekend, the camera at Horton Road, near Three Legged Cross, was set on fire at around 3.35am on Saturday.

Mike Jackson, crew manager at Verwood Fire Station said: “To have two in one week is very uncommon for this area.
“It almost makes you wonder if it’s an organised thing to get rid of speed cameras.
“The damage to the cameras was quite severe. Certainly the lenses and the glass at the front had completely disintegrated.”

Last week the Echo revealed that Bournemouth councillors are to consider the controversial idea of scrapping speed cameras in the town – though any such plan would not affect cameras outside the borough.
A council committee will look at whether the 20 fixed speed cameras in the town do a good job in reducing vehicle speeds and preventing collisions.
And it will also decide whether Bournemouth should follow the example of Swindon and turn off its cameras, ploughing money into other road safety schemes instead.
The 38 fixed cameras across the county are operated by the Dorset Safety Camera Partnership and the two incidents in East Dorset are not the first.
The camera near Cemetery Junction on Wimborne Road in Bournemouth was sprayed over earlier this year and previously the one on Wessex Way approaching the Frizzell roundabout was damaged by fire.
A survey by satellite navigation system company Road Angel found that up to 16 per cent of people support the illegal destruction of speed cameras by ‘vigilante’ gangs.

Cllr Spencer Flower, leader of East Dorset District Council, said he was “shocked” by the damage.
He said: “I couldn’t understand how they managed to burn them both out unless someone put some sort of incendiary device in there.
“There are all sorts of arguments about the benefits of having fixed cameras. I think there’s probably more to be gained in having mobile cameras.
“I shall be interested to see what develops from the Bournemouth initiative. We will look at how the accident record compares before and since we had cameras.”
Speed indicator devices may well be more effective in getting people to abide by the speed limit, he added.


Interesting that they are planning to potentially abolish the cameras. Finally more sense we hope.:)

We must return to the safest roads, we must encourage good driver behaviours, and the authorities must listen to their own stats and research, and recognise that when something is not going right, it must not just be continued for the sake of it !

We need more well trained Traffic Police on the roads so they can immediately stop those they are most concerned with.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 14:45 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Cllr Spencer Flower wrote:
“There are all sorts of arguments about the benefits of having fixed cameras. I think there’s probably more to be gained in having mobile cameras.


We need more well trained Traffic Police on the roads so they can immediately stop these they are most concerned with.


Is that better? The mobiles will still be run by the SCP's and sited for revenue not used by TP to catch drivers going too fast for the conditions surely?

I do not like fixed cameras because of the secondary effects and the poor crutch they form for road safety, mobile cameras likewise except you can be caught by one by the time you can see it so I really do not like those.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 15:16 
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I noticed the 3 Cross one had been burned last week.

The one in the opposite direction has been completely obscured by a bush, which is nice.

Goes without saying that both are just on the way in to a 30 limit on a long straight...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 18:07 
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Safe Speed demands the removal of ALL Cameras that would result in the removal also of all Camera Partnerships.

I have no problem with TrafPol using some 'speed' equipment that they need to find the speed of any given road user.

We now need better trained traffic police too as some have only known roads with cameras !

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 19:22 
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toltec wrote:
mobile cameras likewise except you can be caught by one by the time you can see it so I really do not like those.



Er, aren't you supposed to not be speeding in the first place?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 20:13 
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Quote:
toltec wrote:mobile cameras likewise except you can be caught by one by the time you can see it so I really do not like those.


Er, aren't you supposed to not be speeding in the first place?


Unfortunately, Weepej, it's so much easier to break the law (speeding to you) these days than ever before. People who would have been driving safely 12 months ago are now classed as lawbreaking criminals, not by a change in their behaviour but because of the whim of some pratt in a council office or some old ladies in a knitting circle.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 20:48 
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weepej wrote:
toltec wrote:
mobile cameras likewise except you can be caught by one by the time you can see it so I really do not like those.



Er, aren't you supposed to not be speeding in the first place?


It is obvious that in some areas the speed limit is set unreasonably low and that is what causes people to speed.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 20:50 
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weepej wrote:
toltec wrote:
mobile cameras likewise except you can be caught by one by the time you can see it so I really do not like those.



Er, aren't you supposed to not be speeding in the first place?


There are many things which I am not supposed to do, eating pork crackling for instance, however as with many things taken in moderation there is no harm and much benefit to be gained.

Where the speed limit is lower than 90th percentile for the road in the prevailing conditions prosecution is only a few extra grams of pressure applied to the pedal or a slight dip in the road away. Given the mobile cameras tend to be set up on straights, particularly ones that are good for overtaking, by the time you have checked your speedo to see if you are speeding it is too late. The possibility of mobile cams does slow me down, because trying to spot them absorbs significant observation time and concentration effort so I have to drop speed to ensure observable safety space can be maintained. Not that the drop in speed makes me any safer, all it does is steal the seconds and minutes of my life.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 20:59 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Safe Speed demands the removal of ALL Cameras that would result in the removal also of all Camera Partnerships.

I have no problem with TrafPol using some 'speed' equipment that they need to find the speed of any given road user.

We now need better trained traffic police too as some have only known roads with cameras !


I agree with that, while just a little cautious about how much road safety sense as opposed to financial sense is being used to inform the councillor's statement.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 21:26 
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toltec wrote:
There are many things which I am not supposed to do, eating pork crackling for instance, however as with many things taken in moderation there is no harm and much benefit to be gained.

Where the speed limit is lower than 90th percentile for the road in the prevailing conditions prosecution is only a few extra grams of pressure applied to the pedal or a slight dip in the road away. Given the mobile cameras tend to be set up on straights, particularly ones that are good for overtaking, by the time you have checked your speedo to see if you are speeding it is too late. The possibility of mobile cams does slow me down, because trying to spot them absorbs significant observation time and concentration effort so I have to drop speed to ensure observable safety space can be maintained. Not that the drop in speed makes me any safer, all it does is steal the seconds and minutes of my life.



That's a lot of words to excuse illegal behaviour.

I was under the impression the only people who are consented to exceed the speed limit were the emergency services.

Seems not.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 21:28 
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Flynn wrote:
It is obvious that in some areas the speed limit is set unreasonably low and that is what causes people to speed.


In some areas I think there are traffic lights that are unreasonable to me when I'm cycling, OK for me to pass them on red?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 21:30 
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toltec wrote:
Where the speed limit is lower than 90th percentile for the road in the prevailing conditions prosecution is only a few extra grams of pressure applied to the pedal or a slight dip in the road away.



If you can't control your vehicle why don't you give yourself a bit more margin and travel at 5mph under the limit?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 21:40 
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weepej wrote:
Flynn wrote:
It is obvious that in some areas the speed limit is set unreasonably low and that is what causes people to speed.


In some areas I think there are traffic lights that are unreasonable to me when I'm cycling, OK for me to pass them on red?


From a common sense and safety point of view, there is no reason why you could not just treat it like another junction. The regulations say that you should not go through a red light even if it is perfectly safe to do it. I think what people are trying to say is that the regulations regarding a lot of driving related issues don't have any margin for common sense considerations.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 21:40 
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weepej wrote:
In some areas I think there are traffic lights that are unreasonable to me when I'm cycling, OK for me to pass them on red?

I think it safe to say that many, possibly even the majority, already do; 99% of those do so safely and with consideration to other road users.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 21:41 
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Quote:
Flynn wrote:It is obvious that in some areas the speed limit is set unreasonably low and that is what causes people to speed.


In some areas I think there are traffic lights that are unreasonable to me when I'm cycling, OK for me to pass them on red?


You do exactly as you wish, Weepej, you always seem to be in the right and never do anything wrong...;-)
I just wish that I was that perfect .... ;-) Doesn't it feel good to be in a minority of one.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 21:52 
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Steve wrote:
I think it safe to say that many, possibly even the majority, already do; 99% of those do so safely [jump red lights] and with consideration to other road users.


And this is acceptable?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 22:07 
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What is acceptable any more?
I'm totally peed off with ridiculously low speed limits cropping up every five miles because some granny thinks that the road outside her house is suddenly unsafe, after decades of it being totally safe or lots of traffic lights on roundabouts that haven't needed them for decades or traffic lights on junctions that haven''t needed them for decades....do I have to go on?

Why should that be "acceptable"?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 22:11 
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And then there's the countless hundreds of "sheep" who believe the government lies , that travelling the length of Britain at 50MPH is so much safer for us all.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 22:17 
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weepej wrote:
And this is acceptable?

They think so.

Ideally it isn't, but we don't live in an idea world. Many lights are usually needless (full time traffic lights on roundabouts - wtf?)

That's the problem with needlessly overused or wrongly set restrictions, they invariably encourage disrespect for them - and that's not a good thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 22:23 
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weepej wrote:
Steve wrote:
I think it safe to say that many, possibly even the majority, already do; 99% of those do so safely [jump red lights] and with consideration to other road users.


And this is acceptable?

Not sure what your question is. Are you asking us whether it is acceptable that 99% of traffic lights are unecessarily on red, or that 99% of cyclists who are immune to camera regulation take advantage of this. Which is your question?


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