Safe Speed Forums

Law abiding is a term oft used on here to describe people who exceed the speed limit.

edit: reread safespeedv2's post again and concede that what she meant was some people will get NIPs because somebody else has cloned their plate and they (the "cloneee") will just pay the fine ("accept the injustice"). Sorry!

Oh dear, oh dear I would have thought that you should know be better that that by now ! Of COURSE I am NOT and NEVER ever would, dream of suggesting that people should !
OK I think you have got it now - yep those that clone a plate will go and attract a ticket, and then the poor Law Abiding person, is possibly faced (if they cannot prove otherwise, which is stressful), with paying up for a ticket, (so hard to defend if not easy to prove) when they were never 'the criminal' in the first place. Apology accepted, Thanks .
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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Ok looking back at the text
could have been written better as :
And I am sure, many more will clone number plates, adding to the stress of law abiding citizens, who ....
The be added a variant 'of' and was not meant to be there and was wrong. Should have checked it more carefully sorry to cause confusion, never intended to.

It is, adding to the tragic list of ever growing side effects, of having speed cameras, by our roads. A virus that needs stamping out.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Here's another one, it's now socially accepted in many circles to come up with ways of obscuring your number plates and brag about it down the pub.

I overheard a conversation in a hotel restaraunt the other night while on an overnight trip due to work, some guy in a suit saying that when he goes out on a long trip he sticks a bin-bag to the front of his car, looking like he's just driven into it and it's lodged there, then if he misses a front facing camera, he's still safe. His mates were all like "nice one" and I noticed a few other smiles from people on neighbouring tables.

5-10 years ago I would've thought that what he was doing was completely wrong, indefensible. Today, while I wouldn't do the same myself, I find I just can't look down on the guy for doing so.

Still safe?

Doesn't the camera capture the car and the person driving it?

And why does he want to obscure his reg?

Presumably he wants to avoid getting done (again?) if he misses a speed limit change or drifts over the limit. Whether he'll still get done or not isn't my point, my point is that many normal people now consider it socially acceptable to disguise your car's identity in this way, wheras 5-10 years ago anyone doing that would be assumed to be a hardened criminal (by which I mean burglar, drug dealer, gangster etc. etc.). It's the same as how many people would turn a blind eye if they happened to notice someone climbing up a gatso with a tyre and a petrol can.

It's a slippery slope, how long before false or cloned plates are ignored in the same manner by joe public (at least until it's their plate that gets cloned)

The problem is that this government is going out of it's way to make more and more of us "criminals" and I don't just mean motorists, look at the fiasco about not taking your bin in at a prescribed time or having the audacity to leave the lid up 2 inches, etc, etc.....SO as there are more and more of us being made to feel like "criminals", more and more will be tempted to act like "criminals".

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

2 points

1. mobile cameras work perfectly well at night, reduced focal length is all that is required, ambient street lighting provides enough light to obtain vehicle vrm, make and sometimes driver id, i do not know enough about the new breed of camera to comment, but i dont think they would be adopted if the facility for night time use was reduced

2. cloned vehicles

are you saying that individuals purely clone number plates to avoid camera detection, and therefore blat around at what ever speed they want, with the millions of cameras out there catching speeding motorists these vehicles will be flagged pretty quickly ,

i can understand your campaign needing a boost but really.

cars are cloned to avoid paying insurance, mot and tax duty or to assist in the proceeds of low level crime, filling a tank of petrol on cloned plates is a common occurence in parts, the plates are attached / removed from the car literally a few hundred yards from the filling station, another common trend with cloned plates is shoplifting drive off with stolen goods remove the plates asap to put there hounds off the scent, ihave heard of whole trolley loads off goods being loaded into transit type vans, so no IMO cloned vehicles are not used to avoid speeding tickets



out of curiosity how does he manage in the other 95% of the trunk road network not covered by cameras but our good old RPU, its the same as the boy racers who dash mount their front plates to avoid detection, or the small grease coverd plate on a motorbike, this is the type of person who's intention is to avoid camera detection


but do they

http://www.teletrafficuk.com/commander.htm

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now retired

I don't know. I didn't speak to the bloke directly and I don't pull the same stunt myself (I know that many people on forums use "I overheard" or "my mate" to mean "I do this, but don't want to admit it" but this genuinely isn't the case here).

I suspect his thoughts are that the police generally leave you alone up to about 85-90, especially late at night on the motorway if your driving is otherwise safe, sensible and legal, but the vans out there will be pinging people at 79mph regardless.

I'm sure someone criminal enough to want to use cloned plates will be smart enough to alter obfuscation methods/details on a regular basis; simply remaining with the same clone is asking to be caught. You've even given more methods of circumvention, none of which requires a criminal mastermind to figure out.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I beg your pardon ! No I am NOT suggesting honest decent and law abiding people will place cloned numberplates on theirs cars.
Because of the lack of police on the roads, a cloned number plate will avoid detection to those that are dishonest and not law abiding because the poor and true owner of the real vehicle will be sent all the fines. As tickets are 2 weeks 'late' the police will have such an extremely cold trail to follow they won't bother, and it will always lead them back to the true owner of that plate too ! There are already so many cloned plates too, it is already out of control. The ANPR camera's may catch a few cloned cars when the police are present, but that will be very few.
So the poor law abiding and honest car owner with the paper trail, gets the ticket/s s/he then has to try and defend their innocence and then decide to go to Court or not, if they cannot easily prove where they were. With the legal system now trying to ask for payment even if you win, many law abiding people who were never the perpetrator in the first place, may accept the ticket, as it is less stressful and less time consuming.
The dishonest are favoured because of a distinct lack of Police on the roads and because of total over reliance in camera systems being some one stop answer of which they are clearly not.
- of course - I cannot see why this has been mis-understood, but I hope that now clearly clarifies this.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

If a vehicle keeper indicates a cloned plate further investigations may be made to investigate this. If it shows as being cloned, most show they are not, it will be flagged to ANPR.
The flagging to ANPR turns the heat up considerably.
A registered keeper idly claiming a cloned plate is likely to come to grief.
You really should seek advice before you try to clear something up you know little of.

I believe I've already addressed this just a few posts ago.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

According to constable Lucy Palfreyman at Sussex police, they had 300 pairs of plates stolen from vehicles in 2006, and so they introduced a security screw which she was giving away to motorists who applied.

She put camera enforcement as the principle driving force behind the thefts.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

... and that's just stolen, as opposed to copied (or other forms of obfuscation).
Stolen plates would be the minority of those groups simply because the owner would report it very quickly; they won’t report a clone until they’ve received the NIP, and even then they may not report it (which I think was Claire's point from the start) partly because of the tactics of groups like RSS who pressure 'offenders' into not questioning the validity of the offence.
This part of the problem would just disappear if the SCPs simply automatically gave a copy of their evidence with the NIP, how difficult can doing that be? I guess victims are easier to target than criminals, unless the SCPs are hiding something else

...

Greensheed,

It seems you're in denial about this rather obvious clone problem; I can't help but wonder why. Are you associated with RSS in any way?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

What is so hard to understand ?
Criminals and those that wish to 'lie' (since you now wish to introduce this possibility) and any and all other possibilities, who wish to potentially travel 'scot free', sometimes use cloned number plates.
The law abiding person who's number plate has been cloned, has to defend or pay up and many *will* 'just' pay up for an easier life.
Flagging up on ANPR was never denied it's just no matter how much it is flagged up, unless you have a police unit in attendance (and I appreciate that sometimes you do) no amount of yelling or screaming at the innocent original owner of the number plate can help you track down those that have 'cloned'. I never suggested for a minute that Police won't look into it - I am quite sure they end up wasting many man hours doing this frustrating work.
Since most Police forces are part of the CP's then they do rather have themselves to blame having (as has already been pointed out to you), introduced cameras and a need to enforce (or over-enforce) by relying on those number plates.
What 'advice' might I 'seek'? It bothers me more that this was not thoroughly researched prior to using such devices.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Most people who drive around on "wrong" plates do not do so all the time. if you're going into London and wish to avoid the cc you just change plates on the way....that way the risk of anpr detection is considerably lessened. It's easier to just plaster it with mud.....

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

So how would a static camera pick up mobile phone use or dangerous overtakes?

It would seem to me that someone maybe less than honest with the truth here. I can spot the above were I being driven in a car or set up an OP with night vision gear, but how does a camera recognise a driver using a mobile ???

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

The camera they are refering to is more commonly known as a talivan. They have human beings operating them.

They can't see inside vehicles during the night.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign