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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 05:11 
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David Williams wrote:
London gets first urban ‘average speed’ cameras
David Williams, Motoring Editor David Williams, Motoring Editor London Evening Standard.
18.01.10

Speeding motorists who slow down for cameras face a new threat as Britain's first urban average speed traps are switched on in the capital.
Eighty-four new cameras are being placed on the A13 to the east of London in a bid to reduce the high accident rate on the commuter route.
They check speeds at 37 locations along a seven-and-a-half-mile stretch of the road.
Any motorists who let their speed creep above the limit between Canning Town and the Goresbrook Interchange could face a £60 fine and three points on their licence.
Unlike Gatso cameras, the network of devices monitors vehicles across the area, capturing individual motorists' average speed.
It is the first time that average speed cameras — traditionally used on sections of motorway — will enforce the limit on a road with multiple entrance and exit points, in an urban setting.

Ben Plowden, director of integrated programmes at Transport for London, which runs the project, said: “Traditional safety cameras are very effective at reducing the numbers of people killed or seriously injured on London's roads.
"However, roads such as this 12km stretch of the A13, which has a high level of speed-related collisions, have huge potential to benefit from the new average speed camera systems.”

TfL hopes the new cameras will also reduce collision-related congestion and smooth traffic flow.
The cameras, made by Worcestershire firm RedFusion, are undergoing a trial, but will go live — issuing fines — from early summer.
The speed limit on the section of the A13 to the east of the Canning Town flyover and the Goresbrook interchange will rise from 40mph to 50mph once the new system begins enforcing in the summer.
The limit across the Lodge Avenue and Canning Town flyovers will stay as it is for safety reasons.

A spokesman for the AA said that motorists would initially feel that the scheme was a “bit like Big Brother”, but added: “It is good to give this kind of technology a go to see what we can learn from it, especially if there are safety gains.”
On the affected part of the A13, nearly 500 collisions, including three fatal and 34 serious accidents, were recorded between 2006 and 2008.

Considering all the bad side effects of cameras - even as the Highway's agency states and I would agree : bunching, tailgating, distraction, lane changing and sudden braking ...
and then there are the driver's that go into zombie modes, the one's that over and under compensate, some that realise late the cams have started so brake hard. Those that suddenly realise they have gone over the speed and then brake to drop speed immediately, causing caterpillar braking waves behind, the total distraction of the cams that will cause accidents as people pay less attention to the road and conditions.
HA also state that there have been "no proven safety (casualty reduction) benefits of ANY speed cameras and the only way to reduce/mitigate the hazards associated with ASCs was to educate drivers about how to drive in the presence of these HAZARD CAMERAS."
A worrying beginning to street av cams - the beginning of the 20mph zone av cams I guess .. :(
Still we can keep a close eye on the accident stats and the way they obtain figures and how that compares to previous methods and figures.
I dare say they will see and increase of SI incidents and accidents nr cam sites ..

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 05:59 
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My online Comment :
Well of course at Motorway roadworks police presence has a reduction to PIA's (personal injury accidents) of 27%, but average cams have an increase to PIA's of 6%. Why then do they refuse to use the best driver influence to reduce PIA's? TRL595 see : http://www.safespeed.org.uk/trl595.html
If we examine table 3.10 in the report and calculate the benefits described in the executive summary, we get the table below:
.............................. Fatal Proportion...Serious......Serious &
.............................. Proportional........Proportion...Fatal Prop.
.............................. of PIA ............... of PIA ....... of PIA
open motorways........ 2.7% ................ 14.8% ....... 17.6%
All road works........... 0.7% ................. 12.1%........ 13.2%
Road works with
speed cameras......... 2.6% ............. unavailable .... 17.4%
Apparent change
due to speed
cameras at road
works .....................+271% *......... unavailable ... +31.8%

(* Not a meaningful figure - the number of fatalities in the study was too small.)

So speed cameras are also shown to increase the severity of crashes by about 32% !

Then if we look at the 40 side-effects of cameras on drivers see : http://www.safespeed.org.uk/sideeffects.pdf
None of the side effects have been officially studied. This is almost unbelievable because we have had
speed cameras on British roads since 1992 and it is perfectly clear that there is a wide range of side
effects.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 15:16 
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Please:
The other side-effects of the cameras will be a massive increase in fines (always supposing that some motorists do not slow down) and not only from speeding.....no tax/no mot/no insurance/light/s not working/etc
But....there will also be a massive increase in the amount of information available.
Quite possibly there will be a decrease in traffic quantity....

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 16:58 
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Totally agree that the fines will go up - that was one of my points but I guess I didn't make it too well - sry.
The concern overall is the lower quality of driving ability and reduction in proper road safety messages that will skew people's perception of safety. Thus the driving / riding quality reduction - we see it already it will become worse.

I actually doubt that there will be a car reduction however this maybe seen as it already is with the reduction in growth ...
This will cause further congestion and road blockages. Timing it with booking people automatically by using CCTV will mean that anyone parking 'incorrectly' will then prevent people from actually stopping - so then people will go very slowly to compensate when they cannot momentarily park. I wonder if parking meters will be removed and fees increased to deter stopping ?
What a travesty.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 17:51 
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Surely the general experience of permanent SPECS installations is that they have raised little revenue from fines because of the high level of compliance. The general response is to drive within the limit throughout the zone as the human brain cannot readily compute average speeds. There was one installation on the A2 in Northern Ireland between Belfast and Bangor where politicians questioned whether the cameras were working because so few drivers had been fined.

It is also a misnomer to describe this scheme as "urban" as it covers a major dual carriageway with grade-separated junctions and no property frontages.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 23:05 
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jomukuk wrote:
Please:
The other side-effects of the cameras will be a massive increase in fines (always supposing that some motorists do not slow down) and not only from speeding.....no tax/no mot/no insurance/light/s not working/etc
But....there will also be a massive increase in the amount of information available.
Quite possibly there will be a decrease in traffic quantity....



Is London one of the areas vyeing for a place as a trial area for pay per mile :twisted: :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 00:49 
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I was talking about the actual fine amount not the quantity because they know few people are sent NIPs and they will need to justify the expenses.
I think there maybe a small increase as people are confused initially, when and if this comes to more high street type locations (thinking of the 20mph zones). I have read that London was a target for one of the first 20mph zones I have not read that they plan to develop these zones into possible p/mile zones.
[added] The way it was described it sounded like a very 'urban' area - I am sorry I should have checked thoroughly thanks for pointing it out.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 00:57 
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David Williams wrote:
...Ben Plowden, director of integrated programmes at Transport for London, which runs the project, said: “Traditional safety cameras are very effective at reducing the numbers of people killed or seriously injured on London's roads.


So why not use those then?

David Williams wrote:
"However, roads such as this 12km stretch of the A13, which has a high level of speed-related collisions, have huge potential to benefit from the new average speed camera systems.”.


Oh, I see... :roll: :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 01:13 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
I have not read that they plan to develop these zones into possible p/mile zones.
.


Neither have I -but it seemed strange that they'd go for some lower return method ,unless there was an ulterier motive -and remember that a few areas had been invited to trial pay/mile -so perhaps being cynical and making 2+2=5 -was hoping others might knowmore in that direction

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 01:52 
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RED-SPEED DEMO

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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