Safe Speed Forums

Does anyone know the time after getting flashed by a speed camera that you can't get done anymore!!

The police have 14 days from the date of the offence (give or take a couple of days to allow for posting) in which to serve the registered keeper with the NIP.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Depends if you are the registered keeper. if you are not then the process can take much longer. The registered keeper needs to get the NIP in 14 days unless they have moved house or the vehicle changed ownership recently.

If it was a single flash from behind you may be OK. If they are not operational they go into alert mode which just gives a warning. Two flashes and you are nicked. Front facing cameras are only one flash.

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Speed camera policy Kills

You can only be prosecuted for the offence up to six months after the date of the offence. This is true for most motoring offences.

The date of the offence for failing to supply details of the driver is six months + 28 days from the date they post the NIP.

As others have said. You should have a NIP within 14 days provided you are the resistered keeper and the address on the V5 is correct.

Two years ago, I was in a contra flow at Carnforth on the M6, in a long line of vehicles travelling at 50 - the posted limit.
The car behind me quite clearly got two flashes = despite not being able to exceed the limit.
I would expect this was an error, which would be eliminated on examination of the photographs. Do you know if that is normally the case?

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Sounds like a dummy camera.

They also have trouble telling a positive from a negative speed and flash oncoming vehicles.

Cameras do missfire. I saw a red light camera on the Leicester ring road that was flashing at random

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Speed camera policy Kills

The camera i got done by was on the m42 and it was on that is above the road, like on a bridge. It flashed twice, but there were road works. Its usually a 70mph limit but becuase of the roadworks it went down to a 50mph limit. I was doing 70mph at the time.

Question from a Newbie....

The 14 day rule to recieve a NIP (not that I even know what NIP is) does this apply to the camera's in the back of vans too??

Say for example the date of the offence was the 25th, you recieve a letter on the 16th (dated the 14th)... obviously this is more than 14 days. But I don't know if there is different rules regarding the camera 'safety' vans.

If it is the case, and the offence is now null and void, has any body got, or know where I can get, a documented copy of the regulations and rules.


Cheers

Ian

Ian

It sounds like you're in the clear, but to be sure, get yourself over to Pepipoo for this one. Once it's done and dusted, come and join us in the art of improving road safety.

NIP - Notice of Intended Prosecution. Does exactly what it says on the tin.



The same rules apply for vans and if you are pulled at the side of the road. Though the NIP can be verbal.

But!

If you are not the person named on the V5 (registration document) i.e. the Registered Keeper. OR the address on the V5 is incorrect then the 14 day rule does not apply.

Does'nt the verbal NIP have to be backed up with a written one?

I was a witness in a dangerous driving case, and the defendant got off on a technicality - the written NIP went to the lease company, even though he had received a verbal caution and NIP from the investigating officer.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I think, but am not certain, that their mistake in that case was the follow-up NIP.

Vebal NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) is sufficient if correctly said and explained at the time the offence was committed.

It's usually something similar to

"You will be reported for the consideration of the question of prosecution for the offence of .............."

I always explain what this means, and what is going to happen, to leave people in no doubt that they are being considered for prosecution.

This is in fact the reason for the NIP - that the driver/rider is fully aware that they are being considered for prosecution.

NIP applies to the following offences

ROAD TRAFFIC REGULATION ACT 1984
Sections 16, 88(7) and 89(1) - all speeding offences.

ROAD TRAFFIC ACT 1988
Section 2 - dangerous driving
Section 3 - driving w/o due care/reasonable consideration
Section 22 - leaving vehicle in dangerous position on road
Section 28 - dangerous cycling on a road
Section 29 - cycling w/o due care/reasonable consideration
Section 35 - failing to comply with traffic directions

An NIP need not be given if, at the time of the offence or immediately after it, an accident occurs owing to the presence on a road of the vehicle in respect of which the offence was committed.

An N.I.P. should be sent if the driver may not be aware that an accident has occurred.

An NIP need not be given if a fixed penalty ticket is issued at the time for the offence.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

If you aren't stopped at the time, then the NIP must be served so as to be delivered to the Registered Keeper within 14 days of the offence. Rightly or wrongly, it is taken that a standard first class postmark 13 days after the offence satisfies this requirement.

Given the importance of this documentation, you would think that recorded delivery would be used as a bare minimum, but it seems that the extra 70p or so eats too much into the profit margins of the Ticket Office!

If the car is registered to someone else - eg a lease company - or the documents are at Swansea being changed over to your address bacause you've just bought the car, then it may well be more than 14 days before you receive your NIP, though the same rule still holds good for the "first in the chain", and even then in theory they are supposed to demonstrate a reasonable degree of efficiency in following the paper trail through to the driver. though in practice it seems they take as long as it takes.

So if the car is in your own name (and has been for a while), then if you receive an NIP with a postmark more than 13 days after the offence you should be in the clear, but make sure you keep the document (and the envelope if it's borderline) as proof.

For any motoring offence, papers must be laid before the court within 6 months of the offence for a successful prosecution, (though it may still be after six months before the summons actually lands on your doormat, as happened to me recently!). And I believe the ECHR has enforced a judgement onto our courts that offences of this nature MUST be tried within two years, so if it takes longer than that to actually get to court then the case evaporates.

Regarding the errant GATSO flashes, every automated camera system (except SPECS cameras it seems) has to use an independent secondary method to corroborate the speed. With a GATSO it uses radar to take the primary speed measurement, but then corroborates this by taking two photographs a short interval apart. By knowing the time interval and measuring the distance the vehicle has travelled between them the speed can be calculated. In theory the ticket office should do this and ensure the two values match before issuing the ticket, but in practice there have been countless cases where they haven't bothered to do so, and have issued a ticket solely on the radar evidence alone, despite it being a long way short of infallible! So if you get a ticket from a static camera it is always worth getting hold of the two photographs so you can check whether the allegation holds up.

But as said earlier, get over to Pepipoo for more detailed advice.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Surely they could just fine you £60.70, instead of £60? Who could complain about that? In fact, best to round it up to £100 for all the other expenses!

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I stole this .sig

I would be quite happy with that if it introduced fairness into the system and eliminated the current "guilty until proven innocent" situation.

I know in our case, the driver was visited, and verbally cautioned, and NIP given, however he was driving a vehicle leased to his father.
The case was due for Barrow court, but kept getting postponed, until after 14 months, it ended up at Preston Crown Court.
Two witnesses, and a police officer were fed and transported there at the tax payers expence for nought. I really felt let down, except the Officer told us the defendant was due back in court shortly on an unrelated matter, which might have explained his driving at the time.

On the way home, we witnessed the same driver, exceeding the limit, and under and overtaking tightly packed traffic on the M6!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!