Safe Speed Forums

From the thread : "Should driver's Police others driving?"
Have you got any article about this hazard/hard braking facility?
I cannot see the benefit of it. The brake lights and the car's rapidly slowing position will indicate to all but the most dozy of road users that a car is stopping quickly for a reason, and react accordingly.
What possible benefit does anyone have if the hazards come on too ? It could be mistaken for an indicator with terrible consequences. I would suspect near misses too, as others assume they have stopped, so try to navigate around them just as they start to move off again !

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Probably not the best way of tackling the problem, but, then again, what does one do about the "most dozy of all drivers"?

Like this one?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

A few years since I did a lot of motorway driving, but it was ( and possibly still is) common in the event of seeing a lot of brake lights up ahead to put on hazards. Certainly amongst the heavies . Perhaps one of our HGV posters can explain the origins .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

An increasing number of cars now have this as a standard feature. Bear in mind that a large majority of motorway accidents rear-end shunts, and it only takes one dozy driver to cause a pile-up.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I suspect most of the Safe Speed regulars are driving enthusiasts to some extent, so I credit them with a level of conscientiousness and/or ability beyond that of a typical driver.
It may well be that many here don't see the benefit (smart enough to look ahead and leave room for error). However, I doubt every driver, at all times, will properly apply C.O.A.S.T.

Personally, I would like to know when someone ahead is acting in a reasonably unexpected manner - essentially a panic reaction. Failing that, I would like to know that, if I'm caught unawares, that the folks behind has that critical information which they otherwise could have missed.


I think you have answered your own question
edit: ah, I see Pete did too.


I don't see how. Even if there are specific scenarios where they would be detrimental, I reckon that generally speaking, the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. We suffer from enough pile-ups already.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I take it as someone in front adding extra hazard info for the benefit of those following ( and trying to stop a multiple rear ender ) .I'd like to think that dozy driver gets a wake up call when it sees hazards on in front ,or at least sees something out of ordinary and wakes up .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Whatever the learned opinion on these forums as to the advantages of using hazard lights, the fact remains that it is illegal, except in some special circumstance which do not include "heavy braking", to use hazard flashers whilst moving.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

It could be argued that such heavy braking would typically be associated with a "hazard or obstruction ahead"; indeed the heavy breaking vehicle itself could become a 'hazard or obstruction' with the hazards being the warning of this, so at least in spirit, such an action could possibly not fall foul of HC 116.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Perhaps, but I'd suspect that whilst being illegal, if it helped prevent an accident , our police ,would use that thing that other law enforcers don't have at their disposal - discretion -something I've noticed disappearing from UK roads .Personally, If I'm heading toward a row of traffic, with a sea of brake lights- I'll stick in my hazards - it might just alert the pillock( and I always take person behind to be this ,till proved otherwise) to the fact that I'm slowing down ,perhaps in a hurry . Number of times, I've seen it work - I've lost count. I ( like many thousands of folk) would sooner be a live lawbreaker than a dead legal stat .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Quite agree. But the point I was trying to make is that a manufacturer could not incorporate, as original equipment, a facility which causes the driver to inadvertently break the law.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

It looks like they have done exactly that. The first example I found:

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Doesn't the HC specifically allow the use of hazard lights under these circumstances on motorways?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

The Highway Code can neither prohibit not permit actions - it is only an advisory document. That aside, the relevant law permits the use of hazard lights whilst moving "on a motorway or unrestricted dual carriageway when you need to warn drivers behind you of a hazard or obstruction ahead". That is far removed from applying them under all heavy braking.

I wonder if the fact that the car is so equipped would be an adequate defence against illegal use.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Can you point to the relevant legislation? There might be something else within it that could help clarify this issue.


Again, I'm not so sure it can be argued as simply as that.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The relevant legislation is, according to HC116, Is regulation 27 of the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations (1989). That regulation is a list of restrictions on the use of certain lights. Para 5 bans the use of Hazard warning lights: -



No mention of heavy braking.


I am quite sure that 'slamming on the anchors' to avoid a sheep on an otherwise deserted unclassified road is not encompassed by any of those exclusions

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

This looks like yet another example of the letter of the law threatening to not only trump the spirit of the law, but completely demolish it.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

I don't really agree. The reason for prohibiting the use of hazard lights whilst in motion is because it denies you the ability to signal. If, during your hard breaking, you also need to change lanes to avoid an accident how do you signal your intention - hand signal? If there is a need to signal hard breaking, and there may well be, then do it through a more complex set of brake lights not through the turn indicators.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I would have thought that the clue is in their name: "hazard warning lights", as opposed to, perhaps, "stationary vehicle warning lights".
In any case, I think any built-in system should be intelligent enough to know whether or not the driver's trying to indicate by dint of the fact that the indicator stalk has been moved.
Not that indicating intention to change lanes is particularly high on the average drivers list of priorities when faced with such an emergency situation anyway. Perhaps the system could be extended so that it automatically switches on the indicators when it senses the relevant steering wheel movement.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler