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 Post subject: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 13:31 
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Seasons greetings to all at SS,

On the new bit of the M1 where they have widened it around Luton there are gantries across the road. They have little platforms for cameras. They also have similar on M6 through Brum.

They are speed cameras arn't they? People don't seem to slow up that much for them.

Just wondering, if they are speed cameras if they had quite a high trigger speed. Obviously I'd not be speeding through there :whome: , but it does appear one could go past faster than the posted limit...


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 Post subject: Re: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 16:01 
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These are cameras to enforce variable speed limits. At any indicated limits below 70, they will enforce at limit+10%+2mph, although realistically you'll be lucky to get anywhere near that speed.

There are various rumours that, when the limit is 70, the trigger is well above 79mph, but I wouldn't bet my licence on it. I certainly have it on good authority that, in the early days of the M25 variable limits, the trigger speed when the limit was set to 70 was around 92 mph.

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 Post subject: Re: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 16:06 
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errr.. platforms won't be of course :lol:
It sounds like it might be the setting for one = have you got any piccys ? Even of a similar one from elsewhere - perhaps closer to you so that you can obtain a picture more easily perhaps ?

When I was last on the lower part of the M1 it looked liked they had camera platforms on some of the gantries but not all.
The blue boxed cameras that hang over the bridges are traffic one's but I am sure you know that.
The rectangular boxed ones that take an image after you have passed the gantry (usually) are. (Not seen a case where they are not but you never can be too sure !

edited to add - ty Peter... yes they would have taken variable cams and of course it is a really busy road although not when I was there ! :)

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 Post subject: Re: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 21:49 
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PeterE wrote:
These are cameras to enforce variable speed limits. At any indicated limits below 70, they will enforce at limit+10%+2mph, although realistically you'll be lucky to get anywhere near that speed.

There are various rumours that, when the limit is 70, the trigger is well above 79mph, but I wouldn't bet my licence on it. I certainly have it on good authority that, in the early days of the M25 variable limits, the trigger speed when the limit was set to 70 was around 92 mph.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho !

"good authority"?

In the early days of HADECS they were not approved for use in a 70mph speed limit; so much for your "good authority"!


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 Post subject: Re: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 02:54 
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GreenShed wrote:
In the early days of HADECS they were not approved for use in a 70mph speed limit; so much for your "good authority"!
To be fair PeterE did not specify when the early days were.
The Peek website states (here) :
Peek wrote:
HADECS
The Highways Agency Digital Enforcement Camera System (HADECS) is a digital enforcement product designed in the first instance to record violations of speed limits set via variable speed signs. As such it automatically adjusts its speed threshold to that appropriate for the displayed sign. Combining radar technology for speed detection and multiple cameras for image capture the camera outstation section of the equipment captures offence data and encrypts it to the standards specified by the UK HOSDB. This data is then automatically collected a number of times each day and saved to DVD in a secure police office by the HADECS instation.

The instation equipment additionally has functions for decrypting the evidence, displaying the offences and for performing the UK mandatory Secondary Speed Check. Offences that pass this test are then exported to be picked up by a back office processing system. Other functionality at the instation enables control of the camera outstations including enabling and disabling them, setting their speed thresholds, instigating the outstations to perform a self test and recovery of evidential and log data on demand. The instation is intuitive to use and includes a map interface to provide visualisation of the speed enforcement locations and their current status.

Now what is their 'first' and also 'second' check ? Do you know ?

Also :
Here which states :
Surrey safecam wrote:
M25 Variable Speed Limit Enforcement

In 1995 the Highways Agency installed a variable speed limit system between junctions 10 and 16 of the M25 to encourage improved traffic flow along this stretch. Gantry-mounted speed cameras were installed by the Highways Agency to enforce the variable speed limit. Since 2000, the Metropolitan Police has been responsible for enforcement of the variable speed limit in Surrey (between junctions 10 and 15). Therefore these are not shown on our interactive map of core safety camera sites as these are not owned or operated by Surrey Safety Camera Partnership.

Plus the radar speed measuring device - approval - here
and then the Camera location 'exceptional' document (.doc) here or at the bottom of this page here.

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 Post subject: Re: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 17:19 
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Whilst on the subject of speed cameras on the M1, does anyone have any information about the cameras recently installed on those huge gantries through Derbyshire and again on the lower part approaching the M25?

They seem to be at ridiculously close spacings and I am told they are of the specs variety. I have heard the term "managed section of motorway" used.

By the way, I work for a structural steelwork company and can tell you that those gantries will have cost a bloody packet to make and install.


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 Post subject: Re: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 02:00 
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Less than the "footings" they are mounted on, which are "screwed" into the ground to avoid having to dig for foundations.
In fact most of the steel in the ground for new m/way signs is of the "screwed" (auger) type now....saves a packet on costs....
And the gantries are still cheaper than the fibre-optic system installed along the m/ways to support the data.
And cheaper than the specs cameras mounted on them.
The steel will be quite cheap as well.....

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 Post subject: Re: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 16:16 
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I know the steel to be about £1200 per tonne for normal building work. This is usually supplied primer painted only.

You would probably have to add to that night working rates for the installation.

There must be around a couple of tonnes in each of those gantries. Add to that the cost of galvanizing and powder coating and its "cheapness" is only relative when compared to the camera system.

More importantly (now that our money has already been wasted) how do the camreras work?

Are they gatso or specs?

Do they photograph the front or back of passing vehicles?

Can they be fooled by changing lane between cameras?

Why is each set so close to the last one?


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 Post subject: Re: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 21:53 
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They face the traffic, so photo the back of the vehicle and they are painted grey, which I thought was not the done thing any more. They don't look like Gatsos, but they look more like them than they do Specs.

I know, don't go over the limit and you won't get caught, but the limit is too low at the times of day I travel at (way off peak) and I have been treated like an idiot by the people that administer these things so they can shove them. I'm sick of it


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 Post subject: Re: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 21:05 
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Thanks Adam, but surely if they "face the traffic" then they would photograph the front of the vehicle. Do you mean that they face the same way as the traffic is flowing?

I read on another forum that they were specs, but was not sure as there are the "dragons teeth" markings painted on the road surface "downstream" of the gantries. These markings seem to start level with the gantries and only continue for about 20 metres. This suggests to me that the cameras must be pointing down at a very steep angle.


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 Post subject: Re: M1 Cameras
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 22:07 
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The steel is hardly the highest cost. Not with a 7 billion bill for the backbone fibre-optic system.
Extra for night work ?
You're 'avin' a larf.....
Cameras need to be yellow ?
No, just a suggestion, no LEGAL basis or LEGAL need.
SPECS ?
ANPR ?
They can be both, at the same time.
SPECS can be used as static video, and SPECS cameras do not differ much from ordinary video cams anyway...it's all in the data...and they're all digital now anyway....so you can process the signal to provide for a legion of uses.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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