Safe Speed Forums

I have just returned, by train, from a speed awareness course in Bolton. It was much more positive experience than I expected it to be. If any one is interested enough to listen to my comments with an open mind - rather than with the "just another money raising scam mindset" - I will post my detailed impressions tomorrow.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Thanks. I'd prefer to see what they had to say before passing judgement, so I'll listen to your comments.
Can't say what my carefully considered response will be though

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Tonight I have an urgent appointment with a bucket of beer but will try to post a considered appraisal tomorrow. As a taster I will say that they were pushing COAST.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

About twenty people attened the course age rangin from mid twenties to my self as the oldest. There were three or four professional drivers.
The instructors claimed to have been in the driver training industry - which I took to mean driving instructors - for many years. They seemed to be very concerned with road safety far beyond meree speed. One of them was an IAM instructor. He asked how many of us had taken further formall instruction since passing our test and was unsurprised that the answer was non. He did conceed my point that one could improve ones driving skills by self instruction as well as by formal instruction.

It was made clear from the start that there was to be no discussion of the merits or otherwise of cameras. Nor was there to be discussion of the correctness of speed limits. It was to be given that the people who set the speed limits are infinetly more wise than the drivers who fail to obey them. I don't think that either of the instructors actually believed that.

They did, however, seriously believe that lower speeds mitigate the consequences of accidents. They accepted that some accidents, mainly those involving errant pedestrian behaviour, were inevitable and that, if every drove below the speed limit - especially 20 and 30 limits - the KSI figures would be substantially reduced.

That then was the downside. What followed was much more useful. Even if we did not agree with speed limits we could loose our licence by breaking them so he was going to give us tips on being aware of what the limit was. He showed a series of video clips taken from a moving vehicle and we were asked to write down what we thought the limit was prior to a general discussion. I was perturbed at the ignorance exhibited. Onlyt two people were aware that street lamps meant that there was a 30 limit. A good half of the class didn't know the legal definition of a dual carriage way - they thought that a four lane road with ghost island down the centre was a dual. One of the proffesional drivers was adamant that a Transit van was subject to exactly the same speed limits as a light car.

They went into great detail about how to remain aware of the speed limit - expect a change at a junction, be aware of buildings ahead, notice limit signs on side roads and so on. They then went on to investigate the factors that cause people to exceed the speed limit, from being late to being tailgated, and discussed how to avoid them. That led into COAST which was explained and discussed in some detail, with great emphasise that the overriding factor in road safety is driver attitude.

A rather pointless diversion into eco-driving was followed by a session on hazard perception. Video clips were shown and analysed in class discussion. The instructors continuaally stressed being aware of the speed limit but put great emphasis on the fact that it is often not safe to travel at a speed anywhere near the limit (though not that is often safe to exceed it)

In conclusion: apart from the underlying assumption that speed limits are always correctly set and must always be obeyed, this was a very good refresher course on driving skills, one that a lot of drivers, even no offenders, could benefit from

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I must admit that the bit about the professional driver, not knowing the speed limit on a transit van does not suprise me. I worked for parcelforce for about five years and although, when I started there, I was only driving Escort vans, initially but expected to take out larger vans occasionally. NEVER was I told that transit size vans and above had a lower speed limit than cars. I only found out by reading an article in a newspaper about speed limits.

I have other friends who used to work for PF, so I will ask them if they were ever made aware of the speed limits for vans but to think that if a company of that magnitude fails to warn it's drivers of speed limits, then what chance do drivers in smaller companies have.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Was there any attempt to make participants explain or analyse their own "speeding" behaviour, which always seems to me to be one of the most potentially sinister aspects of such courses?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I would love to be there, if every member of the class stood and justified their "speeding", by saying something along the lines of.." I was aware of the speed limit at the time but was also aware of the fact that I was driving at a safespeed for the road and conditions at the time, using COAST and was aware that I was not a danger to anyone, feeling that my attention to the road, was more important than my attention to my speedo.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I'll bet! And that, of course, is the root of the problem. It's a bit like dodgy companies that make their customer complaints departments deliberately inacessible. Those companies that DO have accessible complaints departments are probably the ones that aren't going to get the complaints in the first place AND can maybe have a better go at justifying their actions / decisions when they do!


Again, by this time I think I'd really have been seriously thinking about walking out and taking the penalty points! Presumably if we all had to push our cars around at walking pace there would be even fewer KSIs too?

OK, my blood would have been pretty near boiling by then. What were the answers by the way, were they the usual patronising "leave earlier" and "pull over and let them past" by any chance?

As you say, something good might have come of it! It grates somewhat that we're now getting charged money & time to be told something that we always held dear anyway and we're only there as a result of a process that fails to take it into account though!

Yes, it's bizarre. It always amuses me that from a vehicle manufacturer's point of view, we're saddled with this ridiculous and indefensible logic. When planing the release dates for a vehicle that can be sold as a car or a van, we have to be careful. If we release the van version first, it's a goods vehicle and the van versions get lumbered with the lower limit. If we release the car version first, the Revenue & Customs chappies take their toll, (not quite sure how because I only deal with the technical bits), but the van versions are then somehow "safe" at the higher speed . The joke, of course, is that on the drawing board, both are designed simultaneously (usually with identical running gear) and, not surprisingly, are equally capable!

They have every opportunity to read the Highway Code. A professional driver not knowing the HC back to front is akin to an electrician not knowing the IEE wiring regs. With the difference that the HC cost £2.50 on paper or nothing online whereas the wiring regs cost over £100

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Absolutely not. When I tried to use my own case as an example I was politely told that individual cases should not talked about.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

As you say, something good might have come of it! It grates somewhat that we're now getting charged money & time to be told something that we always held dear anyway and we're only there as a result of a process that fails to take it into account though![/quote]

For myself I agree with you. I paid sixty quid and learnt very little. But I was the star pupil, the only one who had a thorough grasp of motoring law and the Highway Code. Most of the other participants, even the professionals, seemed to think that the HC was a document as esoteric as the Chronicles of the Elders of Zion. It shouldn't have surprised me but it did, that many of them didn't really see driving as a skill that they should continually be trying to improve. That is the reason that the course was worthwhile.

And if a perfect driver such as myself gets inadvertently dragged in that might be regarded as a small price to pay.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

But did they use complicated reasons for exceeding a speed limit, such as ,"I needed to speed up to avoid passing a cyclist at a point in the road ,where it narrowed due to a man made obstacle, that doesn't reaaly need to be there, and pass him safely." or did they just use simplistic examples, like "I was late for a meeting", that a five year old could give an answer to?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I would have made it clear that such a stipulation cuts both says, and if they did mention those topics they would not be able to stop me.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

My initial impression is that the course would have been of almost infinitely more value if targeted at both drivers convicted of 'due care and attention' offences, and newly-qualified drivers.

That said, all the speed c**p seems to be completely pointless, misleading and should be removed.

If I ever have the misfortune to have to go on one of them, I'll make sure I've got my Valium tablets to hand.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Neither. They basically took the view that if you were applying COAST properly, particularly the A, you would never get into a situation where you needed to exceed the speed limit.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

There was an implied threat that if you did start such an argument you were likely to fail the course.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

So do participants in effect enjoy the right to silence?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Indeed it would. But, given the very low standard of the other participants, I think that it might be of value to any random cross section of drivers.


It was branded as a "Speed Awareness" course. The fact that the instructors managed to present a "Drive Safe" course is infinitely to their credit.


That's what I though. But the fact that the instructor recognized that I was a very experienced driver and allowed me a lot of input made it quite interesting.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Very much so. With the injunction to maintain the confidentiality of the other participants even if we met them socially.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown