Safe Speed Forums

I can't argue with that dcb, but it still makes me nervous that the 'little Hitlers' we know are out there could almost indiscriminately act like judge, jury and executioner against someone, or some group, they don't like. That said, I am broadly in favour of them, pending any more devil in the detail..

Memories of Rowan Atkinson as Constable Savage, sadly un-viewable on you tube because of copywrite.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Your analogy is incorrect. The "clip round the ear" is equivalent to a verbal warning-off of the perpetrator. No ticket; no fine; no records.

What is being proposed is that a person can be recorded, fined and given points on the sole say-so of a police officer. I don't think we should have a potential in the system for a person being banned under totting up when there is actually no independently verified proof of any offence having been committed.

Within guidelines, police should have discretion just to warn or to arrest people for observed wrongdoing. The discretion exercised is understanding the difference between these two outcomes.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Is that the devil in the detail I missed, because I thought it would still be up to the discretion of the Bobby as to whether he/she actually went through the process, therefore being able to give them a verbal warning with only a possible threat of a ticket, (depending on how bad the offence was), not an automatic issue if stopped?

If that is the case then it is close to what we used to have and that’s where I though dcb was right when he said “If you object to automatic devices and don't trust the traffic police how the hell do you enforce traffic laws.”

Also, is it just a “solo officer"? I thought they had to be in twos for more ‘balance’ and confirmation of the incident?

Add: Now I’ve had time to think about it more, I think I’m with whoever said it’s a nonsense law because it already exists, called DWDC or DD. Therefore, do we really need it anyway

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

No, the law itself will not change, but the police will be able to issue fixed penalty notices for it rather than having to take the case to court.

Presumably they will still have discretion as to whether to issue a FPN or just give the "acid lecture".

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Only if he agrees; that is he confesses to the offence. The safeguard of a court appearance is not being removed by this proposal.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I don't really see how this is going to help reduce accidents anyway. I presume at the moment if you indulge in behaviour which attracts the attention of Trafpol, they'd stop you and have a word anyway, taking whatever action they saw fit, including prosecution. Where is the safety benefit in having them able to issue fines & points on the spot?

Sounds like another money spinner similar to speed camera issued fixed penalties to me .... take the fine and points now ... or go to court and get a much bigger fine later.

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)

Did they get the idea from France where I believe, (or have often been told), it's what they do? I haven't looked at Snopes yet but more than one credible person has told me this over the years and also that if you say you don't have the money the Police will escort you to a cash point to get it - no excuses!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

In an ideal world this would work if we had enough trafpol around, maybe in unmarked cars, who were to video all wrong doings such as no lights in bad visibility, not indicating, poor lane discipline on roundabouts,etc,etc. Then once someone is stopped they could be shown video evidence of their wrong doing, which would teach them better than a fine. The inconvenience factor alone would be enough to make people think twice about doing it a again and serious offences (or repeat offenders) could be fined but the video evidence given to the driver to contest it if they wished.

Obviously this would only work if the police had enough cars and resources to do this.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I don't have a problem with the "bobby's discretion". I DO, however, have a problem where there's a powerful financial incentive not to use it, but to dish out a fine instead. Basically, if you were in charge of a force and you'd cashed-out on a load more cars (possibly with video recording equipment) and officers to drive them, you'd have to pay for them SOMEHOW. My fear is that the bobbies will come under immense pressure to "earn their keep", and letting off motorists with "a good talking to" is not likely to fill the coffers!

As I (and others) have said before, we're between a rock and a hard place now. We don't like automated enforcement. We DO like trafpol (at least we've always said so!) and now that there's talk of our wish coming true, we need to be very careful how we react. I am as scared of the "little-Hitler-who-got-out-of-bed-the-wrong-side-that-morning" as the next motorist, but I don't see what else we can do. All I ask is a ROBUST appeals procedure (by which I don't mean "ok, we'll go to court and it'll cost you a lot more, sir". At the very least, maybe the trafpol should be obliged to provide video evidence of the offence?

Nice one Mole.

That's all..

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

If this system is in operation in France it would surely be a good idea to do an in depth study of it to see if can be shown that it has resulted in fewer accidents since introduction?

Have any studies been made to show that it is likely to result in fewer accidents? Or is it a "well that sounds like a good plan, and more miscreants will get caught & fined and that will make us all feel better, and hey we get some cash in as well" kind of thing?

I am aware that it has often be said on this forum that more Trafpol would be a jolly good thing, something which I broadly agree with. Well this announcement seems to indicate that is now a possibility and the wish might be granted ... but at the same time it is also introducing trafpol as judge and jury, I don't think that was ever a common consensus on this forum as a desirable thing?

IMO Trafpol have always gone for the easy targets, and pretty much ignored the underlying causes of bad behaviour. In my experience potential accident situations are the result of several factors and errors, not just the error that direcly resulted in any collision, I do not believe Trafpol in general currently have (or ever have had) much interest in dealing with behaviour which won't result in a prosecution, (e.g MLMs, making very slow progress) but which may well lead to frustration and distraction.

To illustrate my point, take a nice sunny weekend in the west highlands, lots of tourist traffic. Where are the Trafpol? ... yup you guessed correctly ... standing with a lazer device by the side of a long straight ideal for overtaking catching folks speeding, easy pickings. What you won't find them doing ever, is making any attempt to sort out the slow progress queues with no overtaking spaces in between vehicles.

I travel a west highland A road a fair bit, I have very seldom been concerned by anyones outright speed, but I have witnessed several seriously sphincter puckering moments involving slow moving traffic and misjudged overtakes, probably initiated by frustration. I have come across 2 serious accidents resulting in very serious injuries (possibly death), both involving misjudged multi car overtakes.

More Trafpol might well be a plan, but I'm afraid all that will happen is more Trafpol with speed detecting equipment, more prosecutions of absolute offences which were not actually dangerous, collecting cash at the roadside. That will make little difference to the real underlying problems, and therfore fail as a serious attempt at accident reduction.

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)