Safe Speed Forums

Sunday Times today: In Gear section. Trials to start with avg scams (SPECS 3) in place of Gatso / HADEC on managed M Way to 'reduce speed on MWays'. No mention of accidents...! Seems the 'powers that be' just plain hate us folk disobeying the rules they make for us

More alarming the hint of further roll-out across more MWays

Now this project must constitute a 'fixed scam' so therefore the election pledge for 'no more funding for fixed cameras' would seem to be in conflict with that, as would the idea of having to justify all scams in terms of KSI reductions. MWays are the safest roads so its beyond me why there is an emphasis or intent to spend money there.....

Scare mongering? maybe but we should be afraid still. War on the driver persists!!

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Enjoying the twilight years of personal freedom in the UK (and my M3) :)

I have driven thousands of miles around Europe. The do have avg scams in Italy called 'TUTOR'. No where else does.

In Italy TUTOR is switched off (signs saying its 'on' get turned off) when congestion is light. Maybe the UK can be that sensible too?

Is till think that any investment simply to reduce speed is misguided and inappropriate where engineering issues exist elsewhere and lives might actually be saved. Fixing the bloody holes everywhere would be a start!

How does one have any impact on the 'authorities? How come they are still making these crass investment decisions? Only the SPECS manufacturer will benefit so I guess there is a clue there somewhere!

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Enjoying the twilight years of personal freedom in the UK (and my M3) :)

Not to install them (combination speed/anpr/cctv) would be a waste of the billions spent installing fibre-optic data cabling along every motorway [/sarc]

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

The cost of installing that fibre could be recovered by leasing it to carriers

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Re-inforcing the notion of large numbers of the population that speed is largely to blame for RTAs and putting visible deterrents in place is much more likely to keep the votes coming in then telling any sort of approximation of the truth!

Pointing fingers and shouting "Witch" has always been and still remains a very effective political tool, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I'm not at all sure the people taking these decisions really actually (oh they sure will say they have and will sue anybody says different!) have any interest in anybody's safety. If something were to actually succeed and RTA rates reduce to a tolerable level .... the gravy train is liable to run off the tracks and stop abruptly, and there won't be a till left to dip fingers into.

On the other hand maybe it really is crass stupidity, and the decision makers have actually come to believe thier own propaganda?

I actually hope it works and reduces RTAs significantly but I'm sure not holding my breath.

This weekend doing about 180 miles on A roads I know well I saw ...

One actual collision (didn't witness it arrived about 30 secs after it happened, side to side contact, no injuries)
One extreme near miss (only saved from total carnage as 3 cars could pass abreast on that bit of road)
3 cars overtaking on the same (shortish) straight simultaneously (resulting in the above situation)
One extreme overtake (relied entirely on there being nothing coming the other way)
Several inadvisable multi car overtakes (no obvious gap ahead to slot into)
1 multi car overtake at a clearly marked right turn (relying on nothing deciding to turn right)
Several slow moving vehicles with large queues built up behind
2 motorcycles pulled out of a hotel right in front of me the second one definitely saw me but went ahead anyway (moderately heavy braking required to avoid running into back of).
Above motorcycles proceeded to dwadle along the road close together slowly until there was a straight bit then they'd "give it a bit o stick" making safe overtaking impossible.
One car which accelerated hard as I overtook.
One van which accelerated a bit when I overtook then increased its speed from previous cruising speed and followed quite closely, occasionally pulling out as if to overtake but not actually doing it even though there was plenty of room to do so and I gave no indication I would obstruct in any way.
Close following of slow moving vehicles, but not overtaking when good safe opportunities arise.
Lots of following absurdly close to vehicle in front, way to many instances to mention or remember singly.

I saw very little obvious breaking of speed limits, and was never worried by anybody's speed alone.

I've been seeing much of the above sort of behaviour since I started driving .... nealy 40 years ago (gulp how time flies!) ... and I don't think I'm seeing any less instances now.

The only Police presence I see regularly on these roads is ... yup you guessed already .... speed enforcement! Over the past 40 (ish) years I just can't see any difference in driver behaviour, I don't see any improvement in the general standard of driving, and can't see how all the speed enforcement is helping.

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)

Of course lowering the speed limit and installing a camera, would have totally eliminated all these dangerous problems.....NOT!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

They have no intention of leasing it.
There are plans to extend it to most major dual-carriageways.
The cabling has been, and still is, a major project that has largely gone unannounced in any press.
Recent work on the A1/A1M has seen the familiar purple trunking being laid for future use.
Funnily enough, the rail system has also been installing fibre-optic cables...although they may well be renting any free time.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default ... ryId=15026

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

In the paper today is the real (and specious) reason that this is bring considered: carbon emission reduction.

The Department of Guesswork has claimed that lots of CO2 can be saved by strictly limiting speeds on motorways while the disconnected other hand of Government is thinking about raising the limit to 80mph.

Perhaps Cameron should have discussed lowering the limits in China when their Premier was here the other day. You know, the place where car ownership is booming.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I assume we are talking about areas that include the M1 through Derbyshire.

I think I can offer a little ray of hope here (albeit probably a temporary one) for those of us who like to make good progress in light traffic.

The big gantries that these overhead cameras are mounted on are set in pairs - one over each side of the motorway, and the cameras are in silver boxes about the size of a roadside gatso.

At present it seems that there are not enough cameras for all the gantries and it can be seen which gantries have cameras on them by looking at the back of the gantry on the opposite side of the motorway, which will be facing towards you. The 3 silver boxes will be plainly visible.

Does anyone know if these cameras can be fooled by changing lanes? The Derbyshire section is 4 lane and it is easily possible to move over 2 lanes between sets of gantries perfectly safely.

How do you know that?


I fail to see the humour. But they do lease bandwith if not time. We use some at Jodrell Bank.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Given the scarcity of non-automated traffic policing, how long do you think one would get away without a front licence plate, or one dirty enough to not be read by the SPECS computer? I wonder if dodges of this type would become widespread were this scheme to be implemented.

I also wonder whether this would have the effect of encouraging people off the safer motorways onto surface streets.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

the scarcity of non-automated traffic policing has become pretty obvious over the last few years, the number of vehicles I see with faulty lights is getting to be of epidemic proportions.

I THINK the fine for not having a number plate is £30 ... and no points, might make sense to just keep it in the car and say "sorry officer it just fell off down the road there" if pulled, might even get away with it entirely.

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)

Actually, that reminded me of an occasion in London where I spotted a very fancy (I believe) Alfa Romeo with no front licence plate. Having noted the registration mark from the rear I later popped into Fulham police station as I passed. On conveying what I had observed to the PCSO behind the desk she told me that certain makes/models of car do not have to have a front licence plate, as there is nowhere to affix one.

While almost certain this was absolute bunkum, I did not press the matter, partly because there was a homeless crack-addict kicking off in the waiting area, and partly because I wanted to get to the pub! Fortunately there is an Alfa dealership right across from my regular place, and sure enough the staff there confirmed my understanding that Alfas are not exempt from front licence plates, nor any other makes, to the best of any of our knowledge.

If it's already at the stage where someone can drive around central London without a front licence plate with impunity, and law-enforcement employees think to do so is legal, then what do we think is going to happen when not displaying one becomes beneficial to more than just aesthetics?

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Anyone want to invest in a replacement front bumper business making front bumpers with nowhere to affix a number plate? ..... now where did I put that glass fiber kit

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)

Yes it's bunkum. They need to familiarise themselves with the "Display of Registration Marks" Regulations! Quite a few Alfas have offset front number plates. They're designed for the tiny Italian front number plates and there's nowhere convenient to put a full sized UK one, so they're off to one side in a rather ugly (OK-only) holder that's not especially well attached . There's an EC Directive for the size and positioning of rear number plates, but no EC agreement on front ones (yet!) so each Member State does its own thing.

Isn't it just terrible the amount of litter there is blowing around these days. And nobody seems to sweep all the fallen leaves from the streets like they used to.

It must be awfully frustrating for those theft camera folks when a number plate is half obscured by a big wet leaf or a carelessly discarded ice lolly wrapper/crisp packet. Not held on by a few dabs of glue at all. Not condoning that kind of behavoir. Nope.

"I've a rag in the glove box Officer. I'll clean it right away."

Reporting it seems a bit sad to me . I think the LEO had more important things to do, like sort out the crack addict you noted ! And you did too........

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Enjoying the twilight years of personal freedom in the UK (and my M3) :)

Really? Lacking a social conscience are we?

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.