Safe Speed Forums

An anti cyclist is challenged to stop using his car and use a bike for a week. What is noticeable are the hazards that he spots on a day to day basis, especially pedestrians who mindlessly cross the road.

http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/motorists-v-cyclists/cycling-issues-video

And that's never going to stop so cyclists and drivers alike must be mindful of them.

Weepej, you are quite right that drivers and riders should be mindful of everything that can happen around them, but so too should pedestrians. Being the more vulnerable makes it even more important that as a pedestrian I am aware of what is happenning around me. The trouble is the present Government messages seem to be pedestrians can do what they like because everything will just stop for them. I was taught if there is a vehicle coming you dont cross the road, if it is clear you do and that seems to have stood me in good stead for the last 69 years.

This morning on BBC Breakfast Time they had a report of motorists caught speeding outside a school have the option of a fine and points or face a panel of school children. When interviewing the children one said "children may just step into the road". He needs telling you shouldn't just step into the road.

Whilst I agree in principle with you I think that those of us using motorcars or bicycles should remember that a substantial proportion of pedestrians, whether from youth or old age or infirmity, are nor capable of being so mindful. Some on here, such as Steve, would argue that those people should not be allowed out unaccompanied. But I do not agree with that. I think that all of us on bicycles or in motorised transport have a duty of care towards such people.



He is probably aware of that. But ,children being children, it does happen. And, as adults, we should be aware of that possibility and be prepared to take action, such as observing the speed limit, to mitigate the consequences.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

You have misrepresented my position with your final sentences.

I advocate that those who cannot safely interact with other traffic should be supervised. This does not absolve other traffic of their duty of care, I have never made any such implication. I have always maintained that all parties have a duty of care, and in this way gives the best overall benefit. Whynot evidently understand this simple concept.

If I may remind you of your previous misrepresentation on the matter.


I agree, but I have also said: the limit must be appropriate.

'Mitigation' is not the only factor; if it was then the speed limit would be zero. Clearly there are other factors at play.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Whilst they do, those in carriages (motor vehicle, motorcycle or pedal cycle) have more of a duty of care, we are the invaders in their territory, we must show great respect for them no matter how stupid they may be.

Case in point the two gentlemen that just walked out into the road this morning, coffee in hand, not looking either way with two silent cyclists bearing down on them at 20mph (me and one other).

Might I also add they were certainly old enough to have been exposed to a lifetime of public information films about stopping, looking and listening before walking out onto the carriageway, naturally they only listened, as many do.

So it's always going to happen, and we carriage drivers should always be ready for them, unless you think building 10 foot high wire fences the length and breath of the UK's road network to separate pavement from carriageway is a good idea...

As I see it the speed limit is irrelevant, it is having a speed correct for the conditions that matters.

As in all safety matters everyone has a resposibility for their own safety and the safety of others. Therefore if the person is incapable of taking that resposibility then they need supervision. You would not let a 3 year old child out in the road by themselves because they need supervising, albeit I often see todlers someway in front of the adult with them, who apparently has not considered that their child could run into the road. Therefore as a driver, I have to slow and distance myself so that the potential situation remains safe. It does not matter what the speed limit is, the speed has to be right for that situation.

Seen all the anti motoring stuff .Perhaps the cyling loby on here might wake up and see how it suits the speed lobby .Whilst we are ALL BICKERING AMONGS OURSELFS -they sneak in and grab the goodies .We are all ROAD USERS -perhaps as mature adult road users ,we might transport back to earlier days where all road users looked out for the interest of ALL persons on the road -least wise -that was the teachings of my mentors some 45 years ago when I first got a licence , or some 55 years ago when first i took to the roads - YEP -on a bike ,where I leaned ROAD SAFETY . Time for us all ( yep -that's you weepy and you DCB to realise that you are ROAD USERS ,FIRST AND FOREMOST) . Stop bickering about cyclists an cars - start looking at making friends between road users ,so we can SHARE the roads in friend ship ,without animosity .That's the way forward to road safety .AS why not said - we need to start realising that we share the road TOGETHER

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

That's an interesting perception.

It is everyone's territory (unless you want to talk about obstruction, then you might be disappointed)

We all have to give the utmost of care; the more the better. Any less, even by any one party, makes things worse.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Steve takes a very manichean view when he advocates "that those who cannot safely interact with other traffic should be supervised". In fact there is a wide spectrum of that ability ranging from infants who have no ability at all, through young children who are learning but whose judgement is not fully developed, to those members of this board who are always safe in all conditions.

So at one end of the range are people who, I agree, should not be out unsupervised; at the other those who never have problems. And in the middle a substantial group who would be perfectly safe if other road users made allowance for their reduced ability

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I am well aware of that Botach. I am also acutely aware that when I am driving motor car I have a much greater duty of care than when I am walking. For the simple reason that I can do much more damage with 1.43tonnes of metal travelling at 27.4mph than I can do with .08tonnes of body travelling at 2.07mph.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Therefore as a pedestrian it is in my own interest to take extra care, after all the best person to look after my safety, in watever I am doing, is me, not rely on others.

Quite.
Although I noted a cyclist exiting a cycle-path today, onto a road (the path continues on the other side of the road....an exit from a car-park) and neatly t-bone himself into a car.....no injuries except to the car.....and the cycle.....the car driver was less than impressed about his 11 reg mondeo having a dent in the door.
Signs on the exit from the cycle path/footpath....
WARNING: VEHICLES ONCOMING.
Maybe I'll have another set put up on the road:
WARNING: BLIND CYCLISTS APPROACHING FROM LEFT AT SPEED

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

DCB takes a twisted interpretation that leads him to view things as manichean.
DCB also takes a very strange style of narration, as if the person he is referring to has no presence.

Actually I'm more forgiving than some other pressure groups [Brake], and a lot less biased too: I apply my advocacy to everyone, instead of demonstrating bias by being selective with who it is applied to.


Now I'm quite sure one wouldn't really want to be seen to advocate that folks can abrogate their responsibility.

Some much needed perspective.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

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Thank you ,DCB -but you mention

What about the same .08tonnes of body travelling at 15mph( eg cyclist)
hitting the body of .08T.(that's approx 180lb travelling at 22ft//sec =3960 ft lb ,same as a 1.76T car at 1 ft/sec ,or the force of 1.76T stopping in 12" )

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

You still have to rely on others to be safe around you.

For instance, badly driven cars mount pavements every day and kill or injure people on them, not much you can do as a ped to avoid that, but the car driver can do an awful lot for that not to happen in the first place.

I suspect that this type of accident is actually rather rare and NOT representative of the typical pedestrian/car interaction. I would not be at all surprised if cyclist/pedestrian collisions on pavements (Some of which DO result in fatalities) are rather more common!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Don't forget pedestrian areas, banne to cars ,but poorly policed regarding cyclists .ours locally ,we've had one councillor for several weeks complaining about the influx of cars after the bollards go down .Any words on rogue cyclists --no .We did hear of a purge on cyclists on pavements/pedestrian areas - never seen it .
For the benefit of those wishing to put me in the anti cycling lobby -I have no problem with genuine cyclists -indeed I'll go out of my way on the road to help them and give them a wie berth .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yes, that's how I help cyclists too - by keeping away from them.

I almost never see cyclists on my way to work in my local rural area. The other morning I was going to work at 7am in the dark in fog and came across a cyclist with "glowworm" level lights. So, he must have thought "It's dark and foggy today. I'll go on my bike." Doh.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

If DCB wasn't bantering, then this could be interesting to watch.

Returning to the point: relying on others to be safe in their actions doesn't absolve yourself of that responsibility.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign