Safe Speed Forums

OK, here's something I've been wondering about. I spend a lot of my time on single track country roads. At certain times of the day, these can get surprisingly busy - usually as the Sellafield crowd try to avoid the congestion on the main roads!

Sometimes, if a bunch of cars are travelling a bit faster than I would do, left to my own devices, I find that if I tag along to the back of the "convoy", I can make better progress - naturally. Of course, if the lead vehicle were to round a bend an encounter an obstruction of some sort - usually an oncoming vehicle, I imagine he might have a bit of a "moment", but from a purely selfish point of view, that won't be "my" problem! I'm not talking about tailgating here. The cars are perfectly far enough apart so that each can stop if the one in front were to suddenly brake (or even hit something).

Intuitively, this seems like a bad thing to do, and yet it seems to bring important advantages! For a start, as a pedestrian / cyclist / horseist, I'd much rather meet a line of cars than the same number if cars individually. The same is true as a motorist. There's nothing worse than seeing what you think is the last car go past and pulling out of your passing place, only to meet another one! From a traffic flow point of view, it's better to stop for 30 seconds to let 20 cars past, than to stop for 10 seconds, 30 times! Also, when I say that the lead cr is going "faster than I would choose", I'm not, by any means talking about "insane"! Pretty much by definition, if he's much about the 85%ile speed for that road (or even 50%ile!) he's unlikely to get a convoy bulding up behind him in the first place!

Any thoughts?

I understand and have done similar things both from being the lead car and having 'followers' (as in those that do not wish to overtake) and also being one like you of 'the followers'.
I see it as 'reducing the hazard density risk' as in many ways the group as as one. The oncoming cars recognise the convoy as a 'priority' and will often give way to the 'group' too. Everyone benefits. It is like a joining of minds to achieve a single aim.

Having been the lead car too I'll 'allow' for in my style of driving a bigger allowance of braking round the blind corners/brows of hills that shows and teaches the 'group' that I am allowing good warning of oncoming vehicles. If I retain the brake lights then I can see a hazard (could be livestock etc) so the group learn the safe gaps. After 20 miles or so, some will hang back or decide they want to 'lead' so a change in leader might often take place too. Changes in their positioning and gaps will decrease and act as a clear indicator.
I will let them pass and then I can choose to follow or hang back and 'do my own thing' etc ...

I agree to with the letting past ... and will often wait to allow a slight distant car through too than just drive to the next layby although if I have followers that would see me move forward.
It seems to be one of those unwritten, experience led procedures, that happens when all parties are aware and are paying attention, and 'understand and appreciate' the same predicament of intended 'progress'.
Now that winter is here this will happen too on the narrow snow bound roads but with larger gaps to allow for slides and the meeting of oncoming vehicles which become a very big issue.
We see lorries do it too in a similar manner of course on motorways ...

It can be a bit frustrating when the lead car is going especially slow or appear extremely under-confident.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I think that you are in danger of reinventing the Train

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Oh I don't see that, after all we are only 'together' for short periods and only there until our choice of route varies. Unless we plan to have trains / buses to go where and when we chose we will always have independent travel.
Have you never been part of a temporary collective of independent vehicles? The motorway bunches are a little similar but the hazards minimal and people are free to jostle their 'place'.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Aye, that's the trick - turning them into a "train" while they're all going the same way, but without stopping at loads of stations on the way, and then uncoupling them without stopping when one of the carriages wants to head off in a different direction!

In fact, didn't the Yanks experiment with something like that in the 1970s? A sort of tractor channel that ran down the middle of the road and engaged with a hook under the car, towed it along, right behind the one in front, while the driver put his feet up until he reached his turn-off?

Interestin that Claire has pretty much the same veiws and experiences of this type of driving - only thing I would say is that in my case, there's never any swapping of the lead - these are roads too narrow to overtake on. As much as anything, it's the effect on pedestrians that I think improves - if they've stopped in a hedge gateway to let one car go past, a dozen go past instead. That's clearly more tedious fr them - but less than a dozen cars separately. Also oncoming traffic that has stopped in a lay-by and is just about to pull out again. It's worse for them to have to find a place to stop again, no sooner than they had got moving - which is what would happen if the cars going the other way left big gaps between them.

Agreed.
Yes I think there was a car train experiment some time back ... has to research it to know more though.

I think the lead changes due to the longer distances perhaps but it doesn't always of course ! Plus the more open scenery allows for better vision that in say Cumbria or Cornwall where there are greater hedges and less vision.
I agree totally to the sensible 'deal in one stop' when and where possible.

The overtaking does happen as it is common to allow those to pass, using the passing places !:lol:
I was given way to once by some cows that had learned to go into the passing places to allow the traffic (odd vehicle) to pass !
Certainly when I have had a horse on the road stopping once is always better than many times.
Slight aside ;
Horses are more 'settled' when in forward motion so are less spooked when busy than stopped. Keeping horses settled is important for safety. All horses no matter how well behaved can spook at something so by working hard to keep them settled is always sensible.
Much of this is true too when travelling them in horseboxes, and when travelling on smaller roads that are bumpy stopping to check them regularly is necessary, so going in a convoy is less favourable and hence why I'd let everyone pass and (then) keep my vehicle separate from others as much as possible.
Travelling close behind a horse box is never good practice as if your vehicle noise spooks the horse, and a horse panics (although most don't) if it chose to kick out, that box is no container that will hold it!

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I am reminded of one of my more interesting jobs in a previous employment - fixing the roof of my boss' horse box after he'd stopped rather harder than intended and the horse had put its head though the fibreglass roof!

Biggest problem I had on single track roads was the reading of the signs "PLEASE USE PASSING PLACES TO ALLOW FOR PASSING" . No mention of allowing vehicles behind past who are obviously making better time ,( because the drivers might know /be able to read the road better ) . I know from my experience of the one single track road I use ( A830) , I could get in a position ,even behind an other car to see roun the corner better than lead car . Another problem we found was in summer time where a high percentage of drivers admitted that they could not reverse safely ( this was after they'd passed a passing place ) . In a car ,I found quickest way was to reverse ( unless round corner) . In a van ,at work , out came the flasc,sarnies etc . Worked 100%
Problem is that we see so much being made of new drivers not having motorway experience . In this country we still have massive amounts of single track roads - I don't see so much effort being made to educate new drivers on the massive dangers of these roads ,where excessive speed is a major problem ,as is lack of single track road experience -brain is not aclimitised to dealing with the single track problems .Even after all my years away from single track roads , I still go into auto mode when faced with another vehicle where space is restricted .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Wow he was very lucky the horse was still alive ! The 'poll' (top of head) is a vulnerable part on a horse ! I have an old rice horsebox ('63) which is a good strong solid beast but lighter than many modern one's and has most of the current features although is isn't as plush or fancy and doesn't have all the fancy modern things ! But light enough to pull with a car.

Certainly if people read small single track roads wrong there is little forgiveness in them and I bet the young drivers who gain their experience on them are better off for it. (Going bigger is 'easier' than going small as it were.)

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Certainly in the cars of my vintage - RWD a la Moggie -great cars ,but with the rear end adhesion of an ice rink .
Certainly teaches a lot -COAST skills are part an parcel of single track driving - as is knowing how to approach a corner to gain maximum visibility .The most important part in town driving is being able to recognise a bottleneck and react accordingly to make best progress and the width of your own vehicle . Most important thing ( IMHO) is knowing when to stop and let others push through - when moving vehicle causes accident when not recognising shortage of space .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

It's OK, it was his racehorse - it was barking mad before the event anyway! It was one of those self-propelled horse boxes - a Bedford CF chassis cab, if I remember rightly - horrible thing!



Yes, but there's a different skill set to city driving. When I moved from Manchester to Cumbria (and I had to drive in and out of the city centre every day) I was fairly good in eavy traffic. Nowadays, when I go back there, I find myself too timid pulling out of junctions and on to roundabouts. It all comes back after a few hours, but it's just a different set of skills to rural driving. Single track roads annoy me because speed is one really important issue, but you never see a scamera van on them because the pickings just aren't rich enough and the straights aren't long enough. Besides, they're usually a 60 limit when, in a lot of cases, 40 is way too inappropriate for the conditions. It's when you spend a lot of time on single track NSL roads, that you realise just how low down the priority list speed limits should be, compared to a whole rake of other considerations that a driver should take into account when deciding a safe speed!

Another thing that tells you that you are in the real countryside is locals doing apparently lunatic overtakes in diesel vans

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed