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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 16:27 
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The Telegraph here
The Telegraph - David Millward wrote:
Learner drivers to be allowed on motorways
By David Millward, Transport Editor - 7:00AM GMT 08 Dec 2011
Learner drivers are to be allowed to have driving lessons on motorways in an attempt to cut the death toll among novice motorists.
Under the plans it will be possible for learner drivers to undergo some training on a motorway Photo: ALAMY

The change, which will come into force next year, is intended to end the situation in which young drivers can be confronted with traffic driving at speeds of 70 mph or above without any preparation.
Under the plans announced by Mr Penning, it will be possible for learner drivers to undergo some training on a motorway but only if accompanied by a qualified driving instructor.

Addressing the Institute of Advanced Motorists, Mr Penning cited the example of his own daughter who, within minutes of having passed her test, would have been able to drive on a motorway.
The change, however, will not be made compulsory because of the difficulties learner drivers in remote areas of the country would face in finding a motorway within a reasonable distance of where they lived.
Underpinning the move is concern at the number of young drivers being killed and seriously injured on the country’s motorways.

According to figures compiled by the Department for Transport 82 drivers under 21 were involved in fatal motorway crashes between 2006 and 2010.

The initiative reflect growing ministerial concern at the current testing regime which, it is felt, does not prepare drivers for life behind the wheel
“Are we teaching young drivers to pass a test or are we giving them the skills to enjoy life on the road,” Mr Penning said.

Since taking office Mr Penning has stopped driving test centres publicising the routes which will be used during the examination.
He has also banned the publishing of answers to the theory test to prevent candidates learning by rote.

In a further change Mr Penning plans to ban trainee driving instructors giving lessons unless they themselves are supervised by a fully qualified colleague.

Currently trainee instructors can give tuition and the only indication a pupil has that their teacher is not fully qualified is a small screen sticker.
“I am going to put a stop to that,” Mr Penning told The Daily Telegraph. “I am going to stop people who are not qualified doing this. Some of these guys never get qualified.”

Motoring and safety groups welcomed the initiatives announced by Mr Penning.

“It is a good thing in principle, but the devil is in the detail. Going on a motorway is one of the things newly qualified drivers say frightens them,” said Robert Gifford, executive director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety.
“Tightening the rules on driving instructors is very sensible and will improve consumer confidence in the driving instructor regime.”

The changes were hailed by Andrew Howard, the AA’s head of road safety. “This is good news. It will end the ludicrous situation where people can live near a network of motorways and pass their test without ever having been on one, “ he said .
“Toughening the rules on driving instructors is also to be welcomed. At the moment it is possible to be taught by a trainee, without knowing that when you booked the lesson - but you still have to pay the same price.”
The Institute of Advanced Motorists also endorsed the decision to allow driving lessons to take place on a motorway.
“It will mean that properly supervised young drivers can learn how to drive on a motorway with somebody beside them,” a spokesman said.
“These roads are, after all, our safest roads.”
I think that they should ensure that it is only those drivers who are 'ready for the practical test' who are showing good confidence and ability that are allowed on the Motorway. These roads are our safest possibly due in part that those that are under-confident are not on them or only travel short distances.
I do think that it is sensible to have training on the motorway. What about though simply saying that all drivers once passed their test have to do 2 hrs training on the motorway within a 6mth period ? Might that not provide a better system?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 17:05 
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Ending the rule of prohibiting learners on motorways is a very good thing :clap:

Hopefully driving instructors will be instructed to demonstrate things like: good lane discipline (keep left unless overtaking), reading the traffic behaviour ahead, how to maintain speeds when on inclines (a major source of traffic 'domino effect' in my experience) and leaving a good but not excessive gap from the vehicle in front.

This is the chance to make our motorways, our fastest roads, even safer. Bring on 80mph!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 17:26 
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I can see it being a good thing so long as it is limited to approved driving instructors, in well marked cars but to let little Johnnies dad (who may be the worst driver out and a nightmare on the motorway himself) to accompany him and give him bad tips such as tailgating, poor lane discipline and lack of indicating, would simply be asking for trouble.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 20:31 
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From the article

The Telegraph - David Millward wrote:
Addressing the Institute of Advanced Motorists, Mr Penning cited the example of his own daughter who, within minutes of having passed her test, would have been able to drive on a motorway.


A similar situation exists with vehicles .A learner can pass theitr test in something low powered in the morning ,retunr home ,jump into wealthy mummy's Bmw 530 etc with no further trainoing or need for supervision .
My daughter asked me to sit in with her the first few times she went on the M6 ,till she got some experience /confidence .Perhaps this Government that's preaching family standards might look to what happened some years ago ,when either some family friend or parent taught their child to drive , not to pass test , but to survive .

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 17:32 
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About time! It was always ludicrous that someone with no motorway driving experience could be let loose on a motorway. They do operate like a dual carriageway with an extra lane but it seems eminently sensible to allow this for learners that have been learning for a while.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 20:03 
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A thought : does this allow the learner to drive the family to it's destination perhaps travelling not just 20 miles on a Motorway but 400 miles ?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 20:58 
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Quote:
Under the plans announced by Mr Penning, it will be possible for learner drivers to undergo some training on a motorway but only if accompanied by a qualified driving instructor.


No Claire, luckily, they will have to be accompanied by a proper instructor and hopefully, with dual controls.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 23:10 
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Oft times makes me wonder how I and many hundreds of my generation survived . I passed my test in Glasgow . I then learned to drive in the West Highlands on single track roads . Shortly afterwards I got transferred to London . I drove down ,my only inforamtion on Motorways from the HC . My sister had also passed her test in the remotes of the Highlands on single track roads . She also had a work in the capital . Quite often we'd journey north for a long weekend up north - up M1 .We learned how to get on with it -as motorway driving was the privilidge of the full licence person . But in todays motorways - it's a bit different . But on motorways I drew on what i'd been taught on DC - at then 70 .-no different , just an extra lane .But in those days -no BMW /WHITE VAN MAN in lane 3 .No HGV man in L2 ,and in those days HGV were not restricted . But in those days ,HGV man was more professional and courteius . Perhaps , it might be an advantage to have a newbie display a plate ( remember the green P plate ,) on motorways -something like a blue P plate to ask others to give some consideration to someone new to Motorways ,with some police powers to hit those taking the P

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 23:56 
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If we will see more police patrols then this would be good. If we see ever increasing numbers of speed cameras instead to police and to 'manage' the roads, then that would be detrimental to road safety.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 00:02 
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Increased police on motorways would be good for all -especially newbies - especially if the officers were "education driven" - as what the ex learners need is solid education about motorway driving ,and about how to cope with the Mr Pratts looking on L3 as their home lane .

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 00:51 
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So, I can get my 17 year old son his provisional, slap L plates on the car and for the first time he goes out driving let him drive me to Leeds on the M1 then?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 01:47 
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The answer appears to be no.
From this article :
Should learners be allowed on the motorway?
by Claire Evans, Deputy Motoring Editor - Transport & Travel - 19 December 2011

From next year learner drivers will be allowed to head up and down the motorway with a qualified instructor. Will this slow-up – and potentially endanger – other drivers, or is it key to helping learners gain experience?

Letting learner drivers loose on our motorways may seem like a recipe for disaster – or at least a multi-vehicle pile-up. However, that’s just what the Department for Transport has announced it is planning to do.

MP Mike Penning revealed plans to enable learner drivers to get some motorway driving training from 2012, provided they are accompanied by a qualified instructor.

This means they can’t speed around the country supervised only by a friend or relative, but that they can get experience of driving at high speeds in a safe way with an instructor. And they’ll hopefully learn vital skills that will keep them safer once they’ve passed their test.
This implies that they can only be on the motorway with a fully trained Driving Instructor, and bearing in mind that they are also closing the loop that a trainee Driving Instructor cannot be unaccompanied either as they too will need a fully qualified DI with them too, this will not enable you to train your family member when on the motorway. If this article is correct. I am having bother finding anything authoritative from the DSA or DfT directly at this time.
If the 80mph is also introduced then will they be allowed to go at 80mph too ?
I would hope that if demonstrating confidence and ability the instructor can judge when it is safe for a short distance to gain the experience and confidence.

Another article here provides some further info : http://www.spenboroughguardian.co.uk/ne ... _1_4064576

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 09:33 
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The Telegraph - David Millward wrote:
Under the plans announced by Mr Penning, it will be possible for learner drivers to undergo some training on a motorway but only if accompanied by a qualified driving instructor.


weepej -on Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:51 pm wrote:
So, I can get my 17 year old son his provisional, slap L plates on the car and for the first time he goes out driving let him drive me to Leeds on the M1 then?


You do seem to be having trouble reading posts thoroughly , Weepej! I hope your powers of observation on the road are a little sharper.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 22:47 
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weepej wrote:
So, I can get my 17 year old son his provisional, slap L plates on the car and for the first time he goes out driving let him drive me to Leeds on the M1 then?

:headbash: :headbash: :headbash: - go back to the penny farthing days Weepy- this is a discussion on road safety 2012 , not 1922 .

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