Safe Speed Forums

This appeared in another thread:
"The real problem is not with the slow driver, in fact I would take issue with a driver driving outside of their comfort zone. What I do have a problem with is those who tailgate a slow motorist, if you want to go faster, OVERTAKE, or learn how to. By tailgating, it means that the person behind has to overtake two cars rather than one."

....which I completely agree with ... in principle. However, all is not that straightforward. If I'm driving my car, then the paragraph above makes perfect sense and I can, when necessary, put my foot down and execute a clean overtake. However, when I'm driving my van, there's no way I can overtake cleanly (unless the lead vehicle is a tractor) as the van simply doesn't have the power necessary.

This set me thinking: how many times, before we curse a driver in front of us, do we consider the restrictions placed on them by the kind of vehicle they are driving?
Another example: there's a road near me which is littered with humps, cushions and flashing 20mph signs which I can (very early in the morning) traverse at 40mph in my Passat quite safely with little or no discomfort. But when the Passat went in for a service and I borrowed my mum's micra, there's no way I could have driven down that road at more than 20 without dislodging something essential.

Since then, I have not cursed any micra driver in front of me as I know what it's like!

My question, then, is: how often are we prepared to think of the kind of vehicle in front of us, rather than just the driver?

I think that the vehicle type is registered on all occasions by a competent driver as part of COAST observation. For example, if I am looking to overtake and I see a Ferrari coming in the other direction, I might reasonable expect it to be going a bit faster than the proverbial Micra.

In the case of your van, I assume that, knowing its limitations, you cruise along happily in the traffic queue and don't attempt pushy overtaking. I don't think we "curse the driver in front".

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I think that some drivers want to overtake but lack the experience/confidence to know when they can overtake safely, so spend miles tailgating a slow car in the overtake preparitory position but never managing it. I followed one along this road the other day......https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=norton ... ,8.71,,0,0.

During the week it is quiet and has a few long straights for overtaking. I followed a guy in an audi the other day who was in turn following a small car at 40MPH. He had a couple of chances to overtake but didn't although he was on the middle line in an overtake position. Then they both came up behind a tractor doing about 30MPH, at which point I expected them both to sit behind it but no they both overtook sucessfully but when the lead driver carried on at 40MPH, Audi man still tailgaited him in the overtake position, even though I had enough time to overtake both cleanly and he was still tailgating him as I disappeared out of sight.
Unfortunately these are the sort of people who make overtaking awkward as they don't leave much gap between themselves and the lead driver and you have to be 100% sure they aren't going to pull out at the last minute, as you get nearly alongside them.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

But if you're driving a van, simply leave a decent amount of room so someone with a quicker vehicle can use the gap in front for overtaking.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

That's something I've seen .I could put it down to "cameritus", but that reason can be discounted by evidence.

One trip where the overtaking skill was shown up was from the Midlands to Peterborough ,via A14 (DC) and A605( single carriageway). Cameritus- no sign of any drivers showing worries about vans around ,judging by the speed.
Overtaking - on the DC the usual quota of the common repmobile found tailgaiting in the outer lane, hopping from elephant race to elephant race.
On the A605 , the same cars would sit in line astern ,usually at 40 mph. I seldom had much trouble passing them in ye olde Transit, and at the speed, no worries from any van hidden behind a lamp post, although ,to make a safe overtake ,I usually had to exceed the limit for the vehicle type for a short spell.

As graball says - the intent was there, but the ability/knowledge missing. A skill that's being lost IMHO, by the reliance on speed to replace skill in the road safety equation .
Again ,in May ,I took a trip up north .On the return I was faced with long lines of 40 MPH traffic ,held up behind one car ,and to make progress I had to pass several to get to the problem area-a scenic gourmet. This was repeated several times. An on more than one occasion,I had to do it in stealth mode after some idiot blocked my overtake.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I think it was DCB, who posted on here a year or so back that his son was told when taking lessons, not to overtake anything faster than a tractor for twelve months after passing a test. If this is a nation wide trend, it makes you wonder if people having driven for 12 months without overtaking, can't be bothered in the main, to start doing it when they are "allowed to"....anyway, anyone overtaking must be a speed mad, child hating, paranoid maniac...we all know that because BRAKE want us to believe it's true.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Mentioned this before but...

Why on Earth would anyone think that peoples behavior would change for the better simply because they are behind the wheel

I don't get why this isn't understood

The person waiting for the train to arrive, pushing to the front to get on before others...
The neighbour playing their 'sh1te' music until late...

How many do I need to come up with to make this point???

So! WHY DOES ANYONE THINK THAT THEIR BEHAVIOUR WILL SOMEHOW MIRACULOUSLY CHANGE AND THEY WILL BECOME GENTLEMEN AND GENTLEWOMEN JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE DRIVING?

Show me an arrogant selfish man or woman and I'll show you a s t driver!

It's not rocket science...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

That might account for the ones that have not got the skill to overtake and can't and try anything to prevent others from getting on. But how do we arrive at the situation where "never in the age of UK driving, have so many been held up by so few " , simply because overtaking is becoming a lost art ( and practitioners are being seen as followers of Satan ,killers of cats/kittens/rabbits and children by those who still would love us to have a man with a red flag in front). And that's strange, as one HGV learner failed on Stobart, for not overtaking a cyclist when he had the chance ,thus holding up following traffic .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Easy Botach..

Elf an' safety, speed kills, dumbed down policies, pecuniary incentives/discentives - POLITICS!

Nothing has changed, history is repeating itself. Wars, greed, power, can I say the 'B' word...

It should come as no surprise that technology is being used to watch and control us in the 21st century in conjunction with good ole statistics and probability.

The beauty of getting older is wisdom. The drawback is no one listens or takes you seriously. I could write a book on it....

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Not so. He was taught not to pass anything travelling faster than 12mph. I had to spend several hours teaching him the basics of safe overtaking. But the fact is that modern driving instruction regards overtaking as an extremely dangerous manoeuvre which should rarely be attempted.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Why 12MPH???? What a strange figure to arrive at....and how on earth do you measure 12MPH on the average car speedo? I'm sure the people coming up with some of these daft ideas, don't actually drive. I'm sure I was encouraged to overtake a tractor by my instructor on one lesson.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

When my son was learning, we had a heavy snow fall which endured for several weeks - but when I asked if his instructor had used the opportunity to give him tuition on snow driving, he said no, the insurance company would not allow them out in the snow!

NO WONDER there are so many drivers out there who are simply not prepared for many situations they find themselves in.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

So...

We have a combination of factors:

An idiot out of the car is an idiot in it

No-one listens to older and wiser people

People aren't taught to overtake

Overtakers are the spawn of the devil

etc

But frankly, I think the main cause is that most people neither think about nor make allowance for how they drive might effect other people...

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I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Connecting this with the thread about the horrific crash where the MPV went into the lake, is there a reduction in the observational skills of "less engaged" drivers BECAUSE there is a lot less overtaking now and they both don't expect it or look out for any vehicles coming past?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I think that there is a lack of observational skills full stop. People just seem to wander across carriageways and turn left or right without looking, they certainly don't bother indicating anymore and if you can't do something as simple as flicking a stalk an inch or two from your fingers then, what chance they are actually going to move their head or eyes in the direction of a mirror?

As long as you don't exceed that number on the side of the road (or 40MPH when there isn't one ...including built up areas) then nothing else really matters and you can't possibly go wrong....right?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

IMVHO and as a general rule.

The madness of youth; which is why they're a bigger risk.

My guess is because overtakes aren't something you could, or should, find very often. If someone is doing the speed limit I don't overtake. When there is a ditherer in front, because there's so much traffic these days the opportunity often doesn't present itself.

Seriously, if I went out today to show someone how to do an overtake, it's harder than it first seems to find a time/place/situation without going well over the speed limit and risk getting pinged. Apart from motorway driving, where I overtake by switching lanes, I rarely overtake in a car on a SC. More so on my motorbike though Small, thin, nimble, powerful (The sand between the bricks).

Sadly, everyone has been brainwashed into thinking that if you overtake you're a maniac

Call me cynical but I think they just don't care. It's all about me me me. (Thanks Thatcher! ) If they had half a brain they would realise that the behaviour which gets up their nose is likely to be someone just like him/her; how they themselves drive.

They cut you up; they think it's good practice. You cut them up, they think you're an a-hole

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Phrase like "hit nail on head" comes to mind. It's not just on the road. I had occasion to ask next door last week why they were nailing floor boards into place at 2330. They though it was OK, and they'd only be another five minutes.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I bet you were praying for a hidden pipe to surface.........Thar she blows....lol

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I was ,actually. But careful- mention surfacing and we'll see the jolly roger breaking out.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yeah, because if you were to do the same they'd be fine with it. (Not). A perfect example of what I refer to thanks Botach.

I believe it sums up the attitude of people who 'don't speed'. What they mean is they don't want you to speed even though they do. A 'do as I say not as I do' attitude.

I always remember I got a reaction like that from a police forum I joined once, (and promptly got kicked off for telling it as it is). The one pc said something along the lines of "you're just envious because we can get away with speeding".

Point completely f n' missed. The shame of it was there were some great traf pol on there but, I sensed, kept their head down to keep the peace and unity...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.